Difference between revisions of "Directory:Wikipedia ArbCom mailing list leak 2011"

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== Introductions ==
 +
 
Subject: [arbcom-l] Introduction
 
Subject: [arbcom-l] Introduction
 
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Line 350: Line 352:
  
 
-xeno
 
-xeno
 +
 +
_______________________________________________
 +
arbcom-l mailing list
 +
arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 +
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-l
 +
 +
== SlimVirgin and Cirt ==
 +
 +
From: Frank Bednarz <frank.bednarz@gmail.com>
 +
Date: Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:02
 +
Subject: Re: [arbcom-l] Political activism RfAr (Cirt, Shell,
 +
SlimVirgin correspondence)
 +
To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
 +
 +
 +
Kirill is not the right person.
 +
 +
Assuming her position is as you characterized it, I probably disagree
 +
with her. I have particular views on COI (namely, it's usually invoked
 +
counter-productively).
 +
 +
I also have pretty good anti-Cirt bona fides (or so Cirt and Durova
 +
imagine). I will try to find some time to figure it out.
 +
 +
Frank
 +
 +
On Jun 16, 2011 5:04 AM, "Iridescent Wikipedia"
 +
<REDACTED> wrote:
 +
> <lo>
 +
>
 +
> I wouldn't call myself a friend of any kind, but we get on reasonably well;
 +
> because we both work in 19th century English history we run into each other
 +
> quite a lot. That said, I'm not sure I'm the best one to deal with this one. My
 +
> interpretation of that exchange is that Slim is trying to leverage the fact that
 +
> Cirt made massively POV edits with an undeclared COI (probably true), into a
 +
> broader principle that nobody can ever make an edit about anything with which
 +
> they have a real world connection. (This would have obvious implications for the
 +
> trench-war her and her close circle have been fighting for years to keep any
 +
> positive mention of Lyndon LaRouche out of Wikipedia.) While I think Cirt has
 +
> acted fairly indefensibly here, I'm very publicly associated with lobbying to
 +
> explicitly allow editing by employees, PR agencies etc provided it complies with
 +
> Wikipedia rules (the anomaly by which [[User:JustinBieberFan]] can write reams
 +
> of puffery and be welcomed into Wikipedia, but if
 +
> [[User:JustinBieber'sPressAgency]] makes a minor correction to a typo the
 +
> account will immediately be hardblocked makes no sense to me).
 +
>
 +
>
 +
> The best person to talk her down would probably be someone like Kyrill or Coren,
 +
> who have made recent public anti-Cirt comments so can't be painted by Slim and
 +
> Jayjg as All Part Of The Conspiracy.
 +
>
 +
>
 +
>
 +
>
 +
>
 +
>
 +
> ________________________________
 +
> From: Michelle Kinney <shell.kinney@gmail.com>
 +
> To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
 +
> Sent: Thu, 16 June, 2011 1:14:47
 +
> Subject: Re: [arbcom-l] Political activism RfAr (Cirt, Shell, SlimVirgin
 +
> correspondence)
 +
>
 +
> <list only>
 +
>
 +
> Does anyone have a close enough relationship with Sarah that they
 +
> could try coaxing her out of the Spiderman suit?
 +
>
 +
> Shell
 +
>
 +
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 20:07, Sarah <slimvirgin@gmail.com> wrote:
 +
>> Xeno has posted publicly that he has read the email exchange, and sees
 +
>> no grounds for Shell Kinney's recusal. And since reading it, Roger has
 +
>> also voted to decline the case, which implies that the seriousness of
 +
>> it may not have been understood.
 +
>>
 +
>> This is therefore a formal request that the Committee require Shell's
 +
>> recusal, and that members who have declined to accept the case
 +
>> reconsider. If this is not granted, I would like to find an appeals
 +
>> mechanism whereby the position of the Committee can be reviewed by
 +
>> uninvolved parties.
 +
>>
 +
>> The reason I request this is that this situation strikes at the heart
 +
>> of what Wikipedia is and will become. Do you want administrators
 +
>> creating PR pieces about commercial interests at the request of people
 +
>> involved with those interests? And when asked about it, not being
 +
>> forthcoming? If you don't want that, please accept this case.
 +
>>
 +
>> Cirt's editing has for many years triggered concerns that he is
 +
>> editing to the benefit of outside political and commercial interests.
 +
>> The email exchange between Shell, Cirt, and myself provides the first
 +
>> evidence that Cirt created one of the disputed articles -- [[Corbin
 +
>> Fisher]], about a porn company -- at the request of the company's
 +
>> lawyer, and the result was a PR piece by any reasonable standard.
 +
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=330035705
 +
>> The exchange also shows him being less than honest about this.
 +
>>
 +
>> The exchange further shows Shell failing to take the issue seriously,
 +
>> and arguing that, even if the arbitration case went ahead, we could
 +
>> not inform the Committee privately about Corbin Fisher without Cirt's
 +
>> permission. That was accompanied by Shell declining the case. It seems
 +
>> clear from this that Shell involved herself; came down on Cirt's side;
 +
>> and recommended possibly keeping the rest of the Committee in the dark
 +
>> about a key issue unless Cirt himself allowed it to be passed on. This
 +
>> surely provides sufficient grounds for recusal.
 +
>>
 +
>> If the Committee does not hear this case, you leave the community with
 +
>> no adequate dispute resolution process to deal with it. The Corbin
 +
>> Fisher evidence cannot be made public. Therefore, editors taking part
 +
>> in a user RfC would not be able to factor it in, would not know that
 +
>> Cirt had (in my view) been less than honest about this on Wikipedia,
 +
>> and would not be able to view Cirt's other statements in that light.
 +
>> Only the Committee is in a position to take this into account.
 +
>>
 +
>> Finally, I would ask that Committee members not continue to discuss
 +
>> this correspondence onwiki. Shell and I discussed it on wiki in
 +
>> outline, each sent it to the Committee privately, and from them on, as
 +
>> I understood it, all discussion of it would be in private.
 +
>>
 +
>> Sarah
 +
>>
 +
>>
 +
>>>> On 15 June 2011 03:06, Sarah <slimvirgin@gmail.com> wrote:
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> Shell Kinney says she has forwarded this email correspondence between
 +
>>>>> Shell, Cirt, and myself to the Committee. I'm doing the same to make sure
 +
>>>>> all are received in the order they were sent.
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> I do not mind that the existence of this discussion is public, but I would
 +
>>>>> prefer not to see all the contents become public. I think Cirt's admission
 +
>>>>> about creating an article at the request of a company lawyer would damage
 +
>>>>> Cirt considerably, particularly on Wikipedia Review, and people would
 +
> assume
 +
>>>>> the very worst about it. On the other hand, it's clearly relevant to this
 +
>>>>> case. So my request is that, if the case is accepted, the ArbCom regard it
 +
>>>>> as private evidence to be factored in, but not raised publicly.
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> The key points:
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> 1. Cirt acknowledged that in December 2009 he created [[Corbin Fisher]],
 +
>>>>> an article about a gay porn company, at the request of the Corbin Fisher
 +
>>>>> lawyer, Marc Randazza. He says he did this without any personal gain. The
 +
>>>>> article was clearly promotional in tone. See --
 +
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=330446443
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> He also got it on the main page via DYK. See the readership spike --
 +
>>>>> http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Corbin_Fisher
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> [[Corbin Fisher]] is one of several articles and DYKs that have caused
 +
>>>>> concern about Cirt's editing. When Jayen asked about it in May on
 +
> Wikipedia,
 +
>>>>> Cirt replied that he had created it after coming by it "organically" --
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ACirt&action=historysubmit&diff=430962892&oldid=430962663
 +
>>>>>3
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> It raises the question of whether he has created other articles that would
 +
>>>>> benefit outside parties, at the request of those parties. This need not be
 +
>>>>> for Cirt's personal gain. It could simply be that Cirt's enthusiasm for
 +
>>>>> editing Wikipedia has been of benefit to others. The point is not the
 +
>>>>> motive. The point is that promotion is occurring for whatever reason. This
 +
>>>>> is of particular concern given that Cirt's involvement in DYK often leads
 +
> to
 +
>>>>> main-page exposure for his articles.
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> 2. Shell Kinney responded to this with: "I will point out that Cirt's
 +
>>>>> experience with a contact suggesting articles is not at all uncommon and
 +
>>>>> happens frequently through OTRS tickets or even the IRC help channel," and
 +
>>>>> that the article didn't strike her as overly promotional (though it clearly
 +
>>>>> was).
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> 3. I asked Cirt if he would forward to Shell and me -- or to any other
 +
>>>>> uninvolved editors or ArbCom members -- the correspondence he had with
 +
>>>>> Randazza about this. He first said he was not sure he had it all, then said
 +
>>>>> he had asked Randazza and the latter declined his consent.
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> 4. Shell responded that she could not see the point of the line of
 +
>>>>> questioning, or why I was raising a two-year-old issue not flagged by any
 +
>>>>> other editor. Note: [[Corbin Fisher]] has been flagged by several editors,
 +
>>>>> and raised on wikiEN-l.
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> I am concerned about Shell's attitude, particularly as the correspondence
 +
>>>>> was accompanied by her declining the case. I therefore feel she should
 +
>>>>> recuse.
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> A note about forwarding gmails. I've used the gmail "forward all" button,
 +
>>>>> which doesn't forward material that was copied and pasted from another
 +
>>>>> gmail. It means a couple of sentences are missing, but nothing of import.
 +
> If
 +
>>>>> you see something apparently cut off in mid-sentence, that's the reason. I
 +
>>>>> can forward another set of the correspondence simply by hitting "forward"
 +
> if
 +
>>>>> you want that too, though it will give the correspondence back to front.
 +
>>>>>
 +
>>>>> Sarah
 +
>>
 +
>> _______________________________________________
 +
>> arbcom-l mailing list
 +
>> arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 +
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-l
 +
>>
 +
>
 +
> _______________________________________________
 +
> arbcom-l mailing list
 +
> arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 +
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-l
 +
 +
_______________________________________________
 +
arbcom-l mailing list
 +
arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 +
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-l
 +
 +
== Malleus ==
 +
From: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED>
 +
Date: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 16:52
 +
Subject: [arbcom-l] Fw: Requesting advice
 +
To: arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 +
 +
 +
<list only>
 +
 +
For info. While I think a clean start in this case would be a good
 +
thing if it worked, I think it has the potential to lead to a really
 +
nasty situation.both when Sandstein & co spot the new account and a
 +
block-unblock-reblock wheelwar starts, and when Pedro and pals start
 +
accusing us of strangling Malleus and hiding his corpse in the
 +
foundations of Jimbo's luxury mansion because he Got Too Close To The
 +
Truth.and am doing my best to point out the many pitfalls he's headed
 +
for if he goes down this route. (If I flat out tell him not to, he'll
 +
ignore me; if I persuade him why it won't work, that's another
 +
matter.) His style is so distinctive, I don't see how a clean start
 +
could possibly work; while Frank is right that my sock guesses are
 +
often wildly off, I didn't need a checkuser to be sure of that one the
 +
moment I spotted it.
 +
 +
----- Forwarded Message ----
 +
From: Eric <REDACTED>
 +
To: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED>
 +
Sent: Tue, 7 June, 2011 20:23:26
 +
Subject: Re: Requesting advice
 +
 +
I've got no objections to you forwarding this on to ArbCom, but as you
 +
found the other account so easily I have to assume that others would
 +
as well, so probably not much point. I don't want to waste any more of
 +
your or anyone else's time over this, as I've got absolutely no
 +
motivation to invent a new personality to go with a new account.
 +
 +
On 07/06/11 19:58, Iridescent Wikipedia wrote:
 +
 +
That wording's confusing; what's intended is "...should not return to
 +
old topic areas previously identified as problematic". I don't think
 +
there are any areas in which it would apply to you - it's aimed at
 +
people like the Ireland POV-pushers returning in new identities to
 +
remove "British Isles" again once their original accounts have been
 +
told to stop. There are a lot of people who disagree with you over
 +
tone, but (AFAIK) no problem topics for you as such.
 +
 +
If you're happy for me to forward this (the Arbcom list doesn't leak,
 +
so you don't need to worry on that score) I can get a quick yea-or-nay
 +
from The Cabal as to whether anyone foresees any problems. While
 +
Arbcom isn't a governing body etc etc etc, if none of the 18 have any
 +
issue it's vanishingly unlikely a complaint from anyone else would be
 +
taken seriously.
 +
 +
________________________________
 +
From: Eric <REDACTED>
 +
To: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED>
 +
Sent: Tue, 7 June, 2011 19:27:10
 +
Subject: Re: Requesting advice
 +
 +
"Clean-start accounts should not return to old topic areas ..." is an
 +
unrealistically broad-brush exclusion as far as I'm concerned, so
 +
that's not an option. So it looks like it's goodbye to William, and if
 +
I want to edit wikipedia I'm going to have to stick with my
 +
basket-case account.
 +
 +
Thanks anyway
 +
 +
On 07/06/11 16:43, Iridescent Wikipedia wrote:
 +
 +
If you mean "William Leadford", that's fairly easy to detect (I
 +
spotted it without using any advanced permissions of any kind), so
 +
don't expect it to stay secret for long if/when the sudden
 +
disappearance of "Malleus" prompts all three of the WR crowd, Giano
 +
and Bishonen's clique, and the Defenders Of The Wiki to start
 +
sleuthing. As Geogre, Mattisse and RH&E have kindly demonstrated, it's
 +
far harder than you'd think to operate a "clean" account without being
 +
identified; since the person behind the account has the same writing
 +
style and the same interests, to evade detection you're having
 +
effectively to create a new personality, not just a new name. If
 +
you're going to pretend that hard to be someone you're not, it's
 +
unlikely to be worth the effort.
 +
 +
If you're going to go ahead and kill the Malleus account to make a
 +
fresh start, I'd strongly recommend identifying the new account to
 +
Arbcom. Plenty of people would love to catch you "evading scrutiny",
 +
and if you've identified the new account to Arbcom then it greatly
 +
reduces the chance of any unpleasantness down the line. To fall under
 +
the "clean start" protection, you need not only to abandon the old
 +
account altogether, but not return to any old fights. This is harder
 +
to do than it sounds, and is why Mattisse's repeated clean starts
 +
invariably eventually wound up blocked.
 +
 +
I imagine you're already aware of it, but before you do anything
 +
drastic have a read of the official policy on the matter, and decide
 +
whether you can actually work within those restrictions:
 +
 +
If you decide to make a fresh start, you can discontinue the old
 +
account(s) and create a new one that becomes the only account you use.
 +
Clean-start accounts should not return to old topic areas, editing
 +
patterns, or behavior previously identified as problematic, and should
 +
be careful not to do anything that looks like an attempt to evade
 +
scrutiny. A clean start is permitted only if there are no active bans,
 +
blocks, or sanctions in place against the old account. Discontinuing
 +
the old account means it will not be used again; it should note on its
 +
user page that it is inactive.for example, with the {{retired}} tag.to
 +
prevent the switch being seen as an attempt to sock puppet. It is
 +
strongly recommended that you inform the Arbitration Committee (in
 +
strictest confidence if you wish) of the existence of previous
 +
accounts before standing for adminship or functionary positions.
 +
Failure to do so is likely to be considered deceptive.
 +
 +
________________________________
 +
From: Eric <REDACTED>
 +
To: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED>
 +
Sent: Mon, 6 June, 2011 23:25:33
 +
Subject: Requesting advice
 +
 +
I apologise for adding once again to your email burden, but I'm
 +
looking for a little bit of guidance.
 +
 +
I've long thought that the Malleus account is a hopeless basket case,
 +
and it sometimes gets overwhelmed with copyedit requests, most of
 +
which to be honest are on topics that I really couldn't give a
 +
monkey's about. So to give me some quiet time, and a potential exit
 +
strategy, I set up an alternate account well over a year ago now. The
 +
two accounts never edit the same pages, and the alternate account
 +
never edits on anything other than article pages or article talk
 +
pages. You may remember my Nunez99 account that focused on Welsh towns
 +
and villages? This one is rather similar, although not geography
 +
related.
 +
 +
I won't compromise you by telling you what the account name is, but my
 +
question is this; should I reveal this account to ArbCom or should I
 +
keep shtum?
 +
 +
Eric
 +
 +
  
 
_______________________________________________
 
_______________________________________________

Revision as of 02:29, 24 June 2011

Introductions

Subject: [arbcom-l] Introduction

From: Jonathan Clemens <clem4609@pacificu.edu> Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 17:22 To: arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org


All,

This email should serve two purposes: first, to make sure I changed my email address correctly (more on that in a bit), and secondly to provide a bit of an introduction and brief CV on myself.

While I tend to have all my email sent to jclemens@jclemens.org, that's a domain-name-sans-mailserver ever since every ISP started blocking tcp/25 inbound, so I use one of my other two email addresses (school and personal ISP) as outgoing. So, I guess I need to use a mail address where incoming and outgoing match.

I'm Jonathan Clemens. Up until June, I was employed by Intel Corporation, where I had been an information security practitioner (professional staff or first-line manager) since 1999. Previously, I'd worked full-time IT jobs for World Vision (2 years) and Unisys (3 years). I'm 39 at the moment, and currently in graduate school to become a Physician Assistant. The differences between that and medical school are of interest only to those within the field. I'm leaving the IT realm for medicine for a number of reasons; ask offline if you care.

I currently work as a volunteer EMT/Firefighter here in Oregon while going to school, but I've lived most of my adult life in Washington state, though born and raised in Alaska. In addition to my undergraduate degree in computer information systems, I have an M.Div. from Pepperdine. I've been married 15 years, and my wife and I have three kids, the older two of whom are in Boy Scouts.

I've been on the 'net since it was BITNET (in 1987) and ARPAnet (in 1988), and am fully conversant in Windows, Mac, and Linux, in addition to a bunch of oddball operating systems that no one actually uses anymore.

I hope my eclectic background brings something unique to the committee for this coming year.

Jonathan _______________________________________________ arbcom-l mailing list arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-l

From: David Yellope <dyellope.wiki@gmail.com> Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 20:47 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Ah, another techie guy (Technical Support engineer for EMC)

Welcome Jonathan.

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From: Carcharoth <carcharothwp@googlemail.com> Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 21:24 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


The e-mail came through. Does that mean the changes worked? You seem to be moving from north to south along the US West Coast. California next? :-)

The nice thing about running through background stuff like this (not that anyone is obliged to do this at all) is that it does give those on the committee an idea of the diversity in geographical, professional and personal backgrounds. For comparison, some of what I've divulged about my background on this mailing list (though I don't give my name on-wiki) is the following:

Name: Christopher Kreuzer Age: 33 (born 1977) Location: Twickenham, London, UK Education: Undergraduate sciences degree 1995-1999 (Chemistry in final two years) Employment: Writing, keywording and cataloging (science photography), 2000-present Interests: Chess, Tolkien, Science, History

Jonathan talked about eclectic backgrounds. Looking back on the past two years, I'm not sure how much my background actually helped when it came to arbitration. Certainly from what was said on the election pages it looks like the new committee will have a fairly diverse background, and hopefully that will help, though the most important thing seems to be people willing to do things and/or organise their time effectively to do what they are best suited to doing. Well, that and a flair for dispute resolution, of course.

Carcharoth

From: Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com> Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 22:16 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Well, I'm Risker, My real-world name is Anne Clin, but I do not use it on-wiki and request that you not do so either. I respond to either Risker or Anne on the mailing lists.

This is a photo of me taken by Sage Ross at the NYC Wikiconference in 2009.

I work in health care administration and have a rather enormous portfolio, but it has given me lots of life experience that I've put to good use. (Dealing with difficult people, simplifying messages, getting along with people one doesn't actually like, etc...)

Right now I'm not quite myself; I had an emergency appendectomy on Wednesday night, and am just finding my feet. Luckily my advance planning to get all the new arbs up and running on the various lists and the arbwiki meant I just had to hit "send" a lot of times.

Best,

Risker/Anne

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From: Newyorkbrad <newyorkbrad@gmail.com> Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 22:18 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


In case any of the new folks are interested and haven't seen it before, here's my real-world bio:

http://www.ganfershore.com/sub/ira-brad-matetsky.jsp

(I just posted this on Functionaries-l as well, but I'm not sure whether the discussion will centralize there or here.)

Regards, Newyorkbrad/IBM


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From: Frank Bednarz <frank.bednarz@gmail.com> Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 22:24 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Did you ever know a software guy called Steven McGeady, who has a wikipedia biography? I don't think you overlapped much, and Intel's a big place, but I'll be curious if I don't ask.

Frank

On Dec 17, 2010 3:22 PM, "Jonathan Clemens" <clem4609@pacificu.edu> wrote:

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From: Jonathan Clemens <clem4609@pacificu.edu> Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 23:11 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Nope, at the time he left Intel, I wasn't anyone important. I knew people who knew him, but my career hadn't really taken off until after he left.

Jonathan


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From: Elen of the Roads <elenoftheroads@gmail.com> Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 06:48 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Risker

Hope you're feeling better soon

Elen


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From: Elen of the Roads <elenoftheroads@gmail.com> Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 06:53 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Local Government officer in Bradford, Yorkshire here. Currently looking at the snow, and sending messages from the Council's Twitter account (anything you ever want to know about gritting and refuse collection.....)

Real name is Helen Clipsom - rather people didn't throw the surname around, as it's a bit unusual, but feel free to google me. I turn up taking parti in boring local government discussions about new technology etc.

Elen/Helen

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From: <philknight@mail.com> Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 08:34 To: arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org


Yes, hope you're feeling better soon, and all of your help to the new arbs is much appreciated.

Phil

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From: Cas Liber <casliber01@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 08:36 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


-->Anne - gawd, 2nd appendicitis of people on func-l in two weeks (!)

-->(H)elen - gosh, that's alot of bangles on your facebook acct

cheers (nice to be back) thankfully cooler here after a few hot and sticky days...and the aussies are doing better in the cricket too... Cas

To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Sat, 18 December, 2010 10:48:14 PM


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From: Jonathan Clemens <clem4609@pacificu.edu> Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:49 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Sorry to say, I won't be able to help the rest of you keep up the trend. Lost mine a dozen years ago.

Jonathan

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From: John Vandenberg <jayvdb@gmail.com> Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 17:06 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


I intend to keep mine.

More info about me here:

http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Jayvdb

I'm about to go on holidays until the first week of Jan, and will have only limited internet during that period.

-- John Vandenberg

From: Michelle Kinney <shell.kinney@gmail.com> Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 18:31 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


My bio's pretty boring I'm afraid (that's what comes of letting somebody else do it): http://www.dotconcepts.net/users/michelle-kinney

Additionally, I'm 34 with 4 kids, 2 dogs (if the little one really counts as a dog), a hamster and a herd of cats (I work with animal rescue). When I'm not doing artisty stuff, I run a web development business and in my spare time help out with a variety of charities. Most of my contact info in on Wiki (along with a few more personal details), while my phone and usual hours are on the Arb wiki. I'm notoriously horrible at remembering to set my status on IMs and IRC, so please don't get offended if I don't answer - I'm not ignoring you, I'm probably asleep

Shell Kinney

From: Carcharoth <carcharothwp@googlemail.com> Date: Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 09:38 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Since we seem to be doing biographies of some sort, I hope Jimmy won't mind me pointing out this interview published in 'The Independent' today (I spotted the link on his talk page):

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/p...re-2164840.html

Carcharoth

From: Kenneth Kua/ArbCom <kenneth@planetkh.com> Date: Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 15:23 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Kenneth Kua, based in Singapore, currently working in Operations at a large multi-national transporation company.

Too lazy to write a profile these days. Don't keep a Facebook account either, glad I didn't since I saw my colleague getting sacked for a related matter, after someone sought revenge. (This happens more often to ArbCom than you think!)

Kenneth/MD

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From: Xeno <xenowiki@gmail.com> Date: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:29 To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


I'm from the General Toronto Area and work at a financial institution. Before that I sold IT security products.

I used to run a BBS back in the early 90s. When I got onto the Internet (back when dialup charged by the hour), I spent an awful lot of time on a MUD called Realms of Despair (which lead to some hefty connection fees). I had a fairly lengthy addiction to World of Warcraft as well. And then came Wikipedia...

I'm an avid video gamer, and writing/editing articles on video games is what drew me into Wikipedia (unfortunately, I don't do much of that anymore).

I've got a three-year-old boy that keeps me on my toes. I maintain a blog at http://xenocidic.com, but I've not written anything there in a while (and it's really mostly only of interest to video gamers, and more specifically, Xbox 360).

I'm on vacation until the 29th, so won't really be contributing much in the way of discussion, but I am keeping on top of all the emails that are going out over the list so I can hit the ground running when I'm back to work.

Looking forward to working with you guys.

Have a safe and happy holidays =)

-xeno

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SlimVirgin and Cirt

From: Frank Bednarz <frank.bednarz@gmail.com> Date: Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:02 Subject: Re: [arbcom-l] Political activism RfAr (Cirt, Shell, SlimVirgin correspondence) To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org>


Kirill is not the right person.

Assuming her position is as you characterized it, I probably disagree with her. I have particular views on COI (namely, it's usually invoked counter-productively).

I also have pretty good anti-Cirt bona fides (or so Cirt and Durova imagine). I will try to find some time to figure it out.

Frank

On Jun 16, 2011 5:04 AM, "Iridescent Wikipedia" <REDACTED> wrote: > <lo> > > I wouldn't call myself a friend of any kind, but we get on reasonably well; > because we both work in 19th century English history we run into each other > quite a lot. That said, I'm not sure I'm the best one to deal with this one. My > interpretation of that exchange is that Slim is trying to leverage the fact that > Cirt made massively POV edits with an undeclared COI (probably true), into a > broader principle that nobody can ever make an edit about anything with which > they have a real world connection. (This would have obvious implications for the > trench-war her and her close circle have been fighting for years to keep any > positive mention of Lyndon LaRouche out of Wikipedia.) While I think Cirt has > acted fairly indefensibly here, I'm very publicly associated with lobbying to > explicitly allow editing by employees, PR agencies etc provided it complies with > Wikipedia rules (the anomaly by which User:JustinBieberFan can write reams > of puffery and be welcomed into Wikipedia, but if > User:JustinBieber'sPressAgency makes a minor correction to a typo the > account will immediately be hardblocked makes no sense to me). > > > The best person to talk her down would probably be someone like Kyrill or Coren, > who have made recent public anti-Cirt comments so can't be painted by Slim and > Jayjg as All Part Of The Conspiracy. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Michelle Kinney <shell.kinney@gmail.com> > To: English Arbitration Committee mailing list <arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > Sent: Thu, 16 June, 2011 1:14:47 > Subject: Re: [arbcom-l] Political activism RfAr (Cirt, Shell, SlimVirgin > correspondence) > > <list only> > > Does anyone have a close enough relationship with Sarah that they > could try coaxing her out of the Spiderman suit? > > Shell > > On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 20:07, Sarah <slimvirgin@gmail.com> wrote: >> Xeno has posted publicly that he has read the email exchange, and sees >> no grounds for Shell Kinney's recusal. And since reading it, Roger has >> also voted to decline the case, which implies that the seriousness of >> it may not have been understood. >> >> This is therefore a formal request that the Committee require Shell's >> recusal, and that members who have declined to accept the case >> reconsider. If this is not granted, I would like to find an appeals >> mechanism whereby the position of the Committee can be reviewed by >> uninvolved parties. >> >> The reason I request this is that this situation strikes at the heart >> of what Wikipedia is and will become. Do you want administrators >> creating PR pieces about commercial interests at the request of people >> involved with those interests? And when asked about it, not being >> forthcoming? If you don't want that, please accept this case. >> >> Cirt's editing has for many years triggered concerns that he is >> editing to the benefit of outside political and commercial interests. >> The email exchange between Shell, Cirt, and myself provides the first >> evidence that Cirt created one of the disputed articles -- [[Corbin >> Fisher]], about a porn company -- at the request of the company's >> lawyer, and the result was a PR piece by any reasonable standard. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=330035705 >> The exchange also shows him being less than honest about this. >> >> The exchange further shows Shell failing to take the issue seriously, >> and arguing that, even if the arbitration case went ahead, we could >> not inform the Committee privately about Corbin Fisher without Cirt's >> permission. That was accompanied by Shell declining the case. It seems >> clear from this that Shell involved herself; came down on Cirt's side; >> and recommended possibly keeping the rest of the Committee in the dark >> about a key issue unless Cirt himself allowed it to be passed on. This >> surely provides sufficient grounds for recusal. >> >> If the Committee does not hear this case, you leave the community with >> no adequate dispute resolution process to deal with it. The Corbin >> Fisher evidence cannot be made public. Therefore, editors taking part >> in a user RfC would not be able to factor it in, would not know that >> Cirt had (in my view) been less than honest about this on Wikipedia, >> and would not be able to view Cirt's other statements in that light. >> Only the Committee is in a position to take this into account. >> >> Finally, I would ask that Committee members not continue to discuss >> this correspondence onwiki. Shell and I discussed it on wiki in >> outline, each sent it to the Committee privately, and from them on, as >> I understood it, all discussion of it would be in private. >> >> Sarah >> >> >>>> On 15 June 2011 03:06, Sarah <slimvirgin@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Shell Kinney says she has forwarded this email correspondence between >>>>> Shell, Cirt, and myself to the Committee. I'm doing the same to make sure >>>>> all are received in the order they were sent. >>>>> >>>>> I do not mind that the existence of this discussion is public, but I would >>>>> prefer not to see all the contents become public. I think Cirt's admission >>>>> about creating an article at the request of a company lawyer would damage >>>>> Cirt considerably, particularly on Wikipedia Review, and people would > assume >>>>> the very worst about it. On the other hand, it's clearly relevant to this >>>>> case. So my request is that, if the case is accepted, the ArbCom regard it >>>>> as private evidence to be factored in, but not raised publicly. >>>>> >>>>> The key points: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Cirt acknowledged that in December 2009 he created Corbin Fisher, >>>>> an article about a gay porn company, at the request of the Corbin Fisher >>>>> lawyer, Marc Randazza. He says he did this without any personal gain. The >>>>> article was clearly promotional in tone. See -- >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=330446443 >>>>> >>>>> He also got it on the main page via DYK. See the readership spike -- >>>>> http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Corbin_Fisher >>>>> >>>>> Corbin Fisher is one of several articles and DYKs that have caused >>>>> concern about Cirt's editing. When Jayen asked about it in May on > Wikipedia, >>>>> Cirt replied that he had created it after coming by it "organically" -- >>>>> >>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ACirt&action=historysubmit&diff=430962892&oldid=430962663 >>>>>3 >>>>> >>>>> It raises the question of whether he has created other articles that would >>>>> benefit outside parties, at the request of those parties. This need not be >>>>> for Cirt's personal gain. It could simply be that Cirt's enthusiasm for >>>>> editing Wikipedia has been of benefit to others. The point is not the >>>>> motive. The point is that promotion is occurring for whatever reason. This >>>>> is of particular concern given that Cirt's involvement in DYK often leads > to >>>>> main-page exposure for his articles. >>>>> >>>>> 2. Shell Kinney responded to this with: "I will point out that Cirt's >>>>> experience with a contact suggesting articles is not at all uncommon and >>>>> happens frequently through OTRS tickets or even the IRC help channel," and >>>>> that the article didn't strike her as overly promotional (though it clearly >>>>> was). >>>>> >>>>> 3. I asked Cirt if he would forward to Shell and me -- or to any other >>>>> uninvolved editors or ArbCom members -- the correspondence he had with >>>>> Randazza about this. He first said he was not sure he had it all, then said >>>>> he had asked Randazza and the latter declined his consent. >>>>> >>>>> 4. Shell responded that she could not see the point of the line of >>>>> questioning, or why I was raising a two-year-old issue not flagged by any >>>>> other editor. Note: Corbin Fisher has been flagged by several editors, >>>>> and raised on wikiEN-l. >>>>> >>>>> I am concerned about Shell's attitude, particularly as the correspondence >>>>> was accompanied by her declining the case. I therefore feel she should >>>>> recuse. >>>>> >>>>> A note about forwarding gmails. I've used the gmail "forward all" button, >>>>> which doesn't forward material that was copied and pasted from another >>>>> gmail. It means a couple of sentences are missing, but nothing of import. > If >>>>> you see something apparently cut off in mid-sentence, that's the reason. I >>>>> can forward another set of the correspondence simply by hitting "forward" > if >>>>> you want that too, though it will give the correspondence back to front. >>>>> >>>>> Sarah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> arbcom-l mailing list >> arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > arbcom-l mailing list > arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-l

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Malleus

From: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED> Date: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 16:52 Subject: [arbcom-l] Fw: Requesting advice To: arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org


<list only>

For info. While I think a clean start in this case would be a good thing if it worked, I think it has the potential to lead to a really nasty situation.both when Sandstein & co spot the new account and a block-unblock-reblock wheelwar starts, and when Pedro and pals start accusing us of strangling Malleus and hiding his corpse in the foundations of Jimbo's luxury mansion because he Got Too Close To The Truth.and am doing my best to point out the many pitfalls he's headed for if he goes down this route. (If I flat out tell him not to, he'll ignore me; if I persuade him why it won't work, that's another matter.) His style is so distinctive, I don't see how a clean start could possibly work; while Frank is right that my sock guesses are often wildly off, I didn't need a checkuser to be sure of that one the moment I spotted it.

Forwarded Message ----

From: Eric <REDACTED> To: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED> Sent: Tue, 7 June, 2011 20:23:26 Subject: Re: Requesting advice

I've got no objections to you forwarding this on to ArbCom, but as you found the other account so easily I have to assume that others would as well, so probably not much point. I don't want to waste any more of your or anyone else's time over this, as I've got absolutely no motivation to invent a new personality to go with a new account.

On 07/06/11 19:58, Iridescent Wikipedia wrote:

That wording's confusing; what's intended is "...should not return to old topic areas previously identified as problematic". I don't think there are any areas in which it would apply to you - it's aimed at people like the Ireland POV-pushers returning in new identities to remove "British Isles" again once their original accounts have been told to stop. There are a lot of people who disagree with you over tone, but (AFAIK) no problem topics for you as such.

If you're happy for me to forward this (the Arbcom list doesn't leak, so you don't need to worry on that score) I can get a quick yea-or-nay from The Cabal as to whether anyone foresees any problems. While Arbcom isn't a governing body etc etc etc, if none of the 18 have any issue it's vanishingly unlikely a complaint from anyone else would be taken seriously.

________________________________ From: Eric <REDACTED> To: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED> Sent: Tue, 7 June, 2011 19:27:10 Subject: Re: Requesting advice

"Clean-start accounts should not return to old topic areas ..." is an unrealistically broad-brush exclusion as far as I'm concerned, so that's not an option. So it looks like it's goodbye to William, and if I want to edit wikipedia I'm going to have to stick with my basket-case account.

Thanks anyway

On 07/06/11 16:43, Iridescent Wikipedia wrote:

If you mean "William Leadford", that's fairly easy to detect (I spotted it without using any advanced permissions of any kind), so don't expect it to stay secret for long if/when the sudden disappearance of "Malleus" prompts all three of the WR crowd, Giano and Bishonen's clique, and the Defenders Of The Wiki to start sleuthing. As Geogre, Mattisse and RH&E have kindly demonstrated, it's far harder than you'd think to operate a "clean" account without being identified; since the person behind the account has the same writing style and the same interests, to evade detection you're having effectively to create a new personality, not just a new name. If you're going to pretend that hard to be someone you're not, it's unlikely to be worth the effort.

If you're going to go ahead and kill the Malleus account to make a fresh start, I'd strongly recommend identifying the new account to Arbcom. Plenty of people would love to catch you "evading scrutiny", and if you've identified the new account to Arbcom then it greatly reduces the chance of any unpleasantness down the line. To fall under the "clean start" protection, you need not only to abandon the old account altogether, but not return to any old fights. This is harder to do than it sounds, and is why Mattisse's repeated clean starts invariably eventually wound up blocked.

I imagine you're already aware of it, but before you do anything drastic have a read of the official policy on the matter, and decide whether you can actually work within those restrictions:

If you decide to make a fresh start, you can discontinue the old account(s) and create a new one that becomes the only account you use. Clean-start accounts should not return to old topic areas, editing patterns, or behavior previously identified as problematic, and should be careful not to do anything that looks like an attempt to evade scrutiny. A clean start is permitted only if there are no active bans, blocks, or sanctions in place against the old account. Discontinuing the old account means it will not be used again; it should note on its user page that it is inactive.for example, with the Template:Retired tag.to prevent the switch being seen as an attempt to sock puppet. It is strongly recommended that you inform the Arbitration Committee (in strictest confidence if you wish) of the existence of previous accounts before standing for adminship or functionary positions. Failure to do so is likely to be considered deceptive.

________________________________ From: Eric <REDACTED> To: Iridescent Wikipedia <REDACTED> Sent: Mon, 6 June, 2011 23:25:33 Subject: Requesting advice

I apologise for adding once again to your email burden, but I'm looking for a little bit of guidance.

I've long thought that the Malleus account is a hopeless basket case, and it sometimes gets overwhelmed with copyedit requests, most of which to be honest are on topics that I really couldn't give a monkey's about. So to give me some quiet time, and a potential exit strategy, I set up an alternate account well over a year ago now. The two accounts never edit the same pages, and the alternate account never edits on anything other than article pages or article talk pages. You may remember my Nunez99 account that focused on Welsh towns and villages? This one is rather similar, although not geography related.

I won't compromise you by telling you what the account name is, but my question is this; should I reveal this account to ArbCom or should I keep shtum?

Eric


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