MyWikiBiz - User contributions [en]

User:Nathan

2014-12-17T18:27:11Z

Nathan: Blanked the page

User:Nathan

2012-12-15T04:11:34Z

Nathan: Delete please.

User:Nathan

2010-03-20T01:46:30Z

Nathan:

==Internal links==
Subject Interests: [[Subject Interest::Category:Wikipedia]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia scandals]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia Vandalism]]

Directory:Nathan Richards

2010-03-20T01:45:38Z

Nathan: delete please

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing/Archive 1

2008-10-13T01:07:00Z

Nathan: /* The Importance of Being Nathan */ I don't usually edit archives but I make an exception this time.

'''Archive 1''' of [[Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing]], conversations from October x-y, 2008.

----

==Notes & Queries==

'''JA:''' I guess my first criticism would be a worry about the name "crowdsourcing". It clangs me wrong somehow. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 12:12, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''NR:''' My thoughts: Do I even have real-world credentials? Now there's a problem. Why not have a message board ''and'' a wiki? There are good and bad points to having either one.

'''NR:''' On the thought of what domain name to use: I think <s>MimboJimbo.com</s> (no, that is a very bad idea) something that implies what we're doing (Wiki..something) would be suitable. (Well OK taking the piss out of Jimbo, we can do that in other ways without using the domain name to do it, it also doesn't seem professional, why I thought that was a good idea, I'll never know) — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 19:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

'''JA:''' I've grown weary of fixating on (1) Wikipedia (2) Wikipedia Personae. Yes, most of our concrete data and hard experience comes from those sources — though I did see the very same dynamics in Citizendium despite the one bug fix that Sanger tried to implement — but we need to view that data and experience as cases under generic concepts, and focus on the genus not the individuals. So "MimboJimbo" would probably lead us down the wrong path. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 12:30, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''PW:''' I'm afraid that I really don't like "MimboJimbo" either, as it gives a rather "Monty Python" impression and is also inherently negative. If we want to be taken seriously, we've got to have a neutral name which doesn't imply a result (we already know that the result is going to be negative, but we don't need to come out and say that...Best to let people read the evidence and make their own minds up). So, the actual name of the site should be neutral, rather scientific, yet precise. I've suggested "WikiAnalysis" (first choice) and "WikiReader" (second choice)...However, there must be other possibilities.

'''BK:''' There is a professor at Kansas State University who does ethnographic studies of cyberspace cultures. One of his classes focused on the phenomenon of YouTube. He recently gave a [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPAO-lZ4_hU presentation of his work] at the Library of Congress. It's worth watching, mainly for the example of his kind of scholarship. —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 20:15, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

:First seven minutes are very engaging. I'm left with the question, "where did Wikipedia make the mistaken turns away from this magical sense of joyful empowerment?" I'll continue later. Bed time now. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:33, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

::WP made the same mistake that humankind made back in the days of Hammurabi. They adopted a lamentably idiotic community regulatory mechanism. They adopted a regulatory mechanism ideally suited to games or drama, but ill-suited to an academic enterprise. There really isn't any excuse for it. It was a fundamental failure of leadership. —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 21:32, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

:::Well, I finished the video. It was really well done, and I wish I had the time to be able to put things like that together. Oh, and Lindsay Ahalt (53:45) sure is a cutie, but looks to have no natural sense of rhythm. (I say that just to prove I got through the whole video.) Here's my serious take-away: the feel-good YouTube collage we just watched is all about celebrating personal expression. And that's wonderful for something like the video art form. But it's horrendous for something like the creation of a reputable, accurate encyclopedia. That is Wikipedia's problem. Too many people are using it as a canvas for personal expression. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 21:11, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

::::Michael Wesch studies other cyberspace phenomena besides YouTube (as do many other academics). Judith Donath has studied cyberspace cultures for over a decade. We referenced one of her studies in the WV Ethics Project. What's important is the academic methods of study, not the particular corner of Cyberspace that any one study concentrates on. Part of the problem with W-R is that the reviews there lacked academic cojones, gravitas, or demeanor. —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 21:58, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

'''DT:''' Have you reserved any .org or .info domains, in case the project turns into a noncommercial informational resource rather than a commercial entity? [[User:Dtobias|Dtobias]] 20:44, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

:Dan, you are hilarious. This ".org" thing of yours is like your Internet calling card, like the slashed "Z" of Zorro. If we're going to have free "play money" poker tournaments on the site, we should get the ".net" domain, so that we're in compliance with the UIGEA. (lol) -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:48, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

'''AJD:''' Personally I'd favor a forum with a more positive focus. But if you're going to stick with the negative, what exactly is it that you're criticizing? Criticism of "unethical, unprofessional practices of information management on the Internet" seems too broad. Maybe limit it to so called "user-generated" content on the Internet? [[User:Anthony|Anthony]] 13:10, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

==Consider the Crowdsource==

'''GK:''' The only ready synonym for "crowdsourcing" that comes to my mind is "user-generated content", or "Web 2.0". Nathan, you have credentials, in that you have a location, a job, and schooling, which is really all I'm looking for. I think MimboJimbo is way off... I was just mentioning which domains I actually hold claim to. Really, I'm thinking that the domain should be something simple and descriptive (but still available), along the lines of "critiquesofthecrowd.com". -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 13:37, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''JA:''' Okay, let's talk about that. I probably need to start by trying to articulate my inklings, irklings, or reservations about the term.
* When I hear "crowdsource" it calls to mind one of the prime directives of critical thinking, to wit, "Consider The Source!"
** That leads me to ask:
*** Is the crowd the source?
*** If we mean that the crowd is the source, is that a Good, a Bad, or an Indifferent thing?
'''JA:''' That's about as far as I get for now. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 13:52, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''PW:''' The whole idea of "crowd sourcing" as it relates to Wikis is a fallacy. First of all, not everyone has access to a computer and of those that do, not everyone is necessarily able to forcibly vehicle their point of view effectively against the "Voice of the Crowd". The demographics of Wikipedia already show the inherent problems with calling what is produced "the sum of all human knowledge" as there are clearly elements of the subset of humans who are not present in the demographics of Wikipedia. So, what is happening in Web 2.0 is clearly not "crowd" sourcing, but the re-enforcement of the idea that "we are those who define reality". It's a celebration of "Us", which implies a "them" and the division that this implies. The WP:En experience serves very well as a test case for this hypothesis. So, perhaps the "crowd sourcing" angle is too limitative and not the entire phenomenon?

== On real-world qualifications/authentication==

'''NR:''' I actually do not have two of the things that you mention (I've expanded on this via e-mail). Anyway, that's a better idea for a domain name. It's more descriptive in terms of what the site would actually do. I don't know what I was thinking, really. I also agree, it's probably not possible (or prudent) to use "Wikipedia" as part of the domain name. — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 22:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

'''PW:''' Nathan, I don't think that this has to be so complicated. We can trace you to a real person and it's obvious that you are indeed that person. That's fine by me.

'''NR:''' Okay, that works then. — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 17:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

==Suggest we move to the "article"==

'''GK:''' Might I suggest that we move from "thoughtful conversation mode" here on the Discussion page, over to the wiki-mode "Article" page. Let's craft a collection of principles and ideas that we all can live with, and once we get to that point, we can decide on exactly how to execute. If we start to see "edit wars" on the Article page, even among us friends, then that will itself be an indicator that our ideas are not on a level-set.

'''JA:''' For reasons I will tell you about off-line, my mind and time are a bit scattered right now, and I probably won't be up to careful analysis or sustained discussion for another week or so. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 07:07, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

'''GK:''' We'll miss you, but we fully understand, Jon. This is only "web kvetching", you know, and should be toward the bottom of all our priorities!

==A word from Joe==

WR, in my humble opinion, is just extension of the WP thought police and arbcom, and such has lost sight of it's mission. WR is now, just an apologist for WP and a haven for the miscretin wikipeidiot admins and other power drunk punks, who's respect for others and rule of law is non existent. WP is a Canker Sore on the internet and, in my simple opinion, can not ever be reformed. Wikipedia must be dismantled, it's tax exempt status, revoked and the servers, which houses WP purge of the stinking Cancerous mess of wikipeida and it's lies, mis-information, and virtual altar to the tin god Jimbo, the magnificent.[[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 22:52, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

== A lot of words from Blissyu2 ==

My main criticism of Wikipedia is now and has always been the ability for Wikipedia to change truth on important issues. On many very important issues there are multiple viewpoints that must be expressed in order to get an accurate perspective, and it is impossible for anyone to speak or write about them without major bias. Trying to remove the bias leads to removing the factual aspects of the case. Because Wikipedia aims for Neutral Point of View, they forbid experts to comment on topics, which leads to a lot of idiots writing dumb articles. On top of that, experts do secretly edit articles, and secretly control them, to pervert the article. What really should happen is that articles are owned by experts. If an article cannot be written by just one person, then multiple competing articles should exist to reflect all biases. Biases are an important part of historical revelation. I have written many times, and proven pretty conclusively I think, that Wikipedia's article on the Port Arthur massacre, a very important event in Australian history, and even moreso to myself personally, is written horrifically inaccurately. Not only that, but the majority of people who have contributed to it have tried to present accurate information, but have been forbidden from doing so. Because of Wikipedia's inaccurate display of that incident, the generally accepted truth of that issue has changed dramatically, with today as many as 20% of people accepting Wikipedia's version of events, as opposed to less than 5% 5 years ago. On top of that, when Thebainer added the "Conspiracy theories" section, listing some of the least well known theories, and only mentioning their conclusions, rather than the facts that they are based on, combined with saying why they are not believed, he introduced what is called "disinformation". It pretends that these are the only alternatives, when in reality they are not the only alternatives, and indeed represent a minority view even smaller than the minority view presented by Wikipedia.

Wikipedia Review was a good concept, and I think that we can see that in most respects it worked well. The main failure, in my opinion, is in a lack of loyalty. Igor Alexander, the founder of the site, was banned from his own site when we moved. On top of that, then we had all of the original founders, except for Selina, banned from the site, in addition to more than half of the people who have ever held administrator status. Indeed, we have only had perhaps 5 or 6 people ever banned that were NOT administrators or people with power on the site. This reeks of a power struggle, and is quite frankly not on. This kind of thing shouldn't exist anywhere. Perhaps more could have been done to try to stop it, but it is too late now, and I felt like I couldn't do anything more at the time.

Furthermore, a second major problem is that Wikipedia Review began to focus more on popularity and less on integrity. Ever since that director came on (Col Scott, I forget his real name), Wikipedia Review has focussed on what would make them look good rather than what was the right thing to do. For ages we were accused of doing the wrong thing, but then we started to actually do it.

Poetlister should never have been promoted, because Poetlister was never regular enough to warrant it. Poetlister was also the subject of a criticism, hence a poor choice as administrator. Guy perhaps should have been promoted, but they should not have considered both at once, since they were speaking with one voice. Whether they were separate people or not, it is not on.

I do not think that using real names is the answer. That was tried on Citizendium, and it doesn't really make things any better. In the end, if you use your real name on the internet, it just means that the anonymous millions will have more things to smear your name with. When you are talking about criticism and such, you are putting your name out there, and it is dangerous to list your real name.

Besides which, I have known many incidences when people have used what they claimed were their real names, but they actually weren't. It doesn't actually help that situation all that much. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 04:40, 10 October 2008 (PDT)
:It seems to me, Blissyu2, that you are looking for a site which is more amenable to ''what most people would call'' conspiracy theories than is Wikipedia, or the Wikipedia Review. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think this is anything like what Greg has in mind.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 22:31, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

::Given that you lied in your Poetlister investigation [http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dpqbn5p_0dvbzkzgt], I don't think that you have any credibility whatsoever. As I said, the main issue with Wikipedia Review was that it was overrun and that the people who control it now had nothing to do with it being created. This is the issue, not anything to do with conspiracy theories or not. While you're at it though, why don't you fix up your lies in your "investigation"? [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 16:37, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:::Blissy, do you have a link to a page providing the variances and discrepancies between Proabiv's account of the PoetGuy Caper and your account? —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 17:25, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

::::The above link proves it conclusively enough (unless the link doesn't work for you).

::::Proabivouac lied about my having created the Poetlister identity. I invited Poetlister to use Classmates.com. I did not create the page. Further, Classmates.com is a social networking site, like MySpace, that is meant to let you contact people you used to go to school with (it is quite good - you should try it). It isn't, as he implies, a way to create a fake identity. It doesn't even come up in Google. Proabivouac has been aware of the mistake for over a month, and has refused to change it. Proabivouac is aware that thousands of others have lied about me based on his lie, and that it is causing me significant real life problems. Proabivouac is fully aware that he could change it to a more correct statement and that it would not in any way change the Poetlister investigation - all it would do would be to stop the rubbishing of my name. I think, therefore, that rather than Proabivouac being interested in trying to expose truth, he is only interested in smearing my name.

::::As for the other issues, the fact of the matter is that Proabivouac doesn't prove anything. His links don't prove what he claims that they prove. The one and only thing that he proved was that the Taxwoman photo was used by a member of The boudoir. That link that proves that has now been removed. None of the other claims are backed up at all. They might be true, but they might not. This is the issue.

::::As for Poetlister being Taxwoman, we knew that from September 2007, when Encyclopaedia Dramatica proved it. I proved that evidence on Wikipedia Review, and on ED, in September 2007. I was slammed for it. Why am I now being slammed amidst lies started by Proabivouac that the opposite is true?

::::Proabviouc is not to be trusted. Someone who would lie on a major incident, and use it to smear someone else's names, is not someone who you wanted involved in a thing like this. He has had over a month to fix his errors, and has refused. Proabviouc needs to present his real name so that he can be sued for defamation of character. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 19:10, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:::::Blissy, the first "correction" of your [http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dpqbn5p_0dvbzkzgt cited reference] reads as follows:
::::::''At no stage did Mr.Baxter (as Poetlister or otherwise) give the name Giselle Hillman. The name Giselle Hillman was given [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mindspillage&diff=next&oldid=32464977 once, by Wikipedia user Zordrac in a message to Wikipedia administrator Mindspillage on 23rd December 2005].''
:::::Is there evidence one way or the other whether User:Zordrac is another sockpuppet of the author of the PoetGuy Caper? My reading of [http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=20205&view=findpost&p=127804 this post by FT2] leads me to infer that FT2 believed Zordrac to be yet another character in the PoetGuy cast of characters. Have I misread FT2's analysis? —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 19:30, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:::::Also, can you direct me to the place (page and passage therein) where, [http://mywikibiz.com/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_crowdsourcing&diff=71341&oldid=71340 as you write], "Proabivouac claimed that I created the Poetlister identity, based purely on the fact that I had invited Poetlister to use Classmates.com." [[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 19:40, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

::::::Look at the link for G H at NamesDatabase (Classmates.com is a subsidiary of NamesDatabase): http://namesdatabase.com/people/HILLMAN/GISELLE%20VERONICA/20432221. It says quite clearly "Referred By" as opposed to "Written By". I cannot believe that Proabviouc, or anyone else, could get confused as to the difference. It is a deliberate lie that it says "Written By". [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 23:13, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

::::::::That page does not contain any claims by Proabiv. Please direct me to the place (page and passage therein) where, [http://mywikibiz.com/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_crowdsourcing&diff=71341&oldid=71340 as you write], "''Proabivouac claimed'' that I created the Poetlister identity, based purely on the fact that I had invited Poetlister to use Classmates.com." I am looking for a page ''written by Proabiv'' and bearing that alleged claim ''in his writing''. —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 14:41, 12 October 2008 (PDT)

:::::::Actually, the report states that the information was "added by " you, not written by: we'd assumed that when you ''referred'' "Giselle Hillman" of Ilford 2000 to classmates.com, that her name then appeared in her class list.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 14:14, 12 October 2008 (PDT)
Um, User:Zordrac is me. LOL. I have used Zordrac since 1996, Blissyu2 since 1998 and Cat since 1992. I have said on many places that they are all the same person. Most of the rest of the time, I use my real name (usually just my first name), Adrian. There are other people that use the name "Zordrac", many other people that use the name "Cat", and a few other people that use the name "Blissyu2" (mostly impersonators - for example Blissyu2 on Wikipedia is not me, but rather was created by probably Antaeus Feldspar or Longhair to impersonate me). However, I can confirm that indeed User:Zordrac on Wikipedia is the same person as Blissyu2 on Wikipedia Review.

Yes, I was accused of being Poetlister. I am in Australia. My real life identity is available online. On my MySpace page you have links to 2 of my sisters, both of my parents, and a variety of other real life things. I have had an internet presence since 1992. Look up virtually anything to do with Port Arthur massacre and you will see me, since 1995 at least. On Lintilla (a talker) in 1995 I was telling people about Rob, and about his murderous plans. I don't know if you can find that, but I don't think that they ever wiped that. I said it in a few news groups too and in my original web site on Geocities (since hacked into by Julie in 2003 and wiped).

FT2 is either jumping to conclusions or is pretty dense. Why would I have a 16 years long internet presence when secretly I was a British civil servant? And people accuse me of believing stupid things!

Unless you want to think that I was hacked by Poetlister. My e-mail address was closed down thanks to Somey (which is sort of like hacking, but not quite), and my Wikipedia Review account was hacked by Somey, plus of course Somey "bought" my site from Selina, who never owned it in the first place. But I am pretty confident that Somey/Selina are not Poetlister. Somey and Selina may well be the same person, but that is another issue. I can't prove that, I just believe that they seem to be the same person. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 19:53, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:Blissy, can you direct me to the place (page and passage therein) where, [http://mywikibiz.com/index.php?title=Talk:Criticism_of_crowdsourcing&diff=71341&oldid=71340 as you write], "Proabviouc claimed that I created the Poetlister identity, based purely on the fact that I had invited Poetlister to use Classmates.com."
:If there were others who "accused you of being Poetlister" can you direct me to the pages and passages therein where I might lay my eyes on those accusations and read them for myself?
:Is it your contention the FT2 was mistaken when he wrote that [http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=20205&view=findpost&p=127804 passage in W-R] suggesting that the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mindspillage&diff=next&oldid=32464977 WP posting about G.H. signed by Zordrac] came from the author of the PoetGuy personas?
:Also, can you explain why, in [http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dpqbn5p_0dvbzkzgt your cited reference], you did not unequivocally disclose that you authored the Zordrac post? I've read those five bulleted paragraphs several times now, and I frankly confess I am unable to extract a coherent view from them, primarily because your testimony fails to distinguish your own presumptive theories of mind from the expressly stipulated frame of minds of those whose frame of mind you are purporting to characterize in your account.
:[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 21:37, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

::Okay, FT2 is taking up my invitation to talk to Poetlister. Note that, had anyone bothered to do this from the very start, then this would all have been resolved long ago. Once again, if you read what I wrote to Mindspillage, I was basically trying to prove it either way once and for all. Poetlister, however, refused to hold up a sign, and Mindspillage (and everyone else) refused to contact Poetlister. All ego tripping on everyone's parts. The [http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=20205&st=680&p=127804&#entry127804 passage from FT2] does not in any way suggest that Zordrac and Poetlister are the same person. Further, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mindspillage&diff=next&oldid=32464977 in the statement made to Mindspillage] it does not in any way suggest that Zordrac and Poetlister are the same person. Zordrac (me) was investigating the ban of Poetlister. How could they be the same person? Read them again and perhaps you might get it. I was trying to write the Google docs article from a 3rd person perspective, although I did sign it Blissyu2, and also stated "Zordrac is a known alias of Blissyu2". I would have thought that that was obvious. How can you not understand what I am saying there? I must be missing something. What is there to confuse you? He says that I wrote the G. H. entry in NamesDatabase at Poetlister's request, when in the link itself it actually says that I invited Poetlister. Simple. How could you get that confused? How could you think that Proabviouc is telling the truth when the link he provides proves that he is lying? [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 23:05, 11 October 2008 (PDT)
::::Adrian, ''where is the page and passage'' in which (as you claim) ''Proabiv says'' that you wrote wrote the G. H. entry in NamesDatabase at Poetlister's request? —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 14:53, 12 October 2008 (PDT)
:::::He's referring to this document: http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dd7ss2g_0fshgw6hq
:::::We wrote that he "added" the information, but it sounds like Blissyu2 says he only invited "Poetlister" to add it himself. As soon as he clarifies what happened, we can make the necessary correction.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 15:43, 12 October 2008 (PDT)
::::::Ah, now I see what Blissyu2 is referring to. Thank you for directing my attention to it. So now the question to be answered is who posted that entry. As I understand it, Blissyu2 denies posting it directly. Is it Blissyu2's testimony that Baxter posted it at Blissyu2's suggestion? —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 16:26, 12 October 2008 (PDT)
:::Would you quit it, Blissyu2? Just explain what happened. You "invited" Poetlister to the site. Okay. Why did you invite him?[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 14:20, 12 October 2008 (PDT)

== [[Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View | The Wikipedia Point of View]] ==

Just to add my two pennies - we already have [[Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View | The Wikipedia Point of View]] here on MWB. The idea was not a forum, but something more like a Wiki, where problems with Wikipedia articles are carefully documented with hard links and references. I started it because permalinks are hard to maintain in a forum. Plus almost any subject in Wikipedia Review has a long history that its proponents understand too well to explain to outsiders, meaning most of it (e.g. Naked short selling) is incomprehensible.

It is a personal effort and will remain so, but there is a need for something that explains in a reasonable and sober way to an outsider what is happening at Wikipedia. Rather like Encyclopedia Dramatica but without the dramatics and, er, the pictures. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 05:58, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

== Peccadildonic Pastimes ==

What I have observed in the Wikisphere (which includes the many miscreantic outcasts on W-R) is an abundance of unproductive venting on issues running to obscure peccadilloes for which the corresponding emotional state is oftimes utterly inscrutable.

If there is an unmet need for peripatetic peccadildonic palavering, perhaps we should think about how to organize that ongoing orbital oration into a more functional process that converges to some insightfully innovative solutions to our cumulative collection of complementary complaints.

Otherwise, all we are doing is pouring ''kvetchup'' on our refried brains.

[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 07:28, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:I agree with you wholeheartedly about the disputes issues. However, the history of Wikipedia Review is that primarily the major arguments were caused by people who came to Wikipedia Review either to destroy Wikipedia Review or to try to prevent Wikipedia Review criticising anything. In other words, to resolve this is mind-bogglingly simple: simply do not allow anyone to come to the site if they are against the aims of the site! Don't allow any Wikipedia administrators, period. If anyone comes on at all who is saying that Wikipedia is perfect, get rid of them! At times in WR's history when Wikipedia administrators/Wikipedia fanbois/people trying to destroy the site were either gone or else were in hiding, the site had a lot less arguments, and was a lot more heading towards something good. The point of a site shouldn't be to spend 90% of its time trying to discuss the site itself, rather it should be focussed on its own aims. If you look through these things, you will find that it is not "banned users" or any kind of pro-WR people that were causing the problems, but rather it was Wikipedia administrators and other vehemently pro-Wikipedia people that were just trying to muddy the waters. Don't allow Wikipedia admins and/or pro-Wikipedia people and the site is a lot less about analysing itself, a lot less destructive fighting, and a lot more about the real issues. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 07:26, 12 October 2008 (PDT)

::Alas, the "aims of the site" were never clearly articulated, agreed-upon, or posted as a Mission Statement that everyone understood and subscribed to. Here is the [http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=18961&view=findpost&p=111131 best statement of the aims of W-R] that I know of:
<Blockquote><Blockquote><Blockquote><Blockquote>
WR: NOT Wikipedia Review is not a conspiracy, a team-building exercise, a role-playing game, or an experiment in collusion. It is not meant as a resource or training ground for those who would instill fear and misery in others. It does not exist to corrupt, but to expose corruption; it does not exist to tear down institutions, but to expose the ways in which institutions are torn down; it does not exist to hate, but is meant to expose hate in others. To expose these things is not evil. It is not a monolithic entity, nor the sum of its parts. Like-mindedness does not imply singularity of purpose; respect for the rights of one group does not imply disrespect for the rights of another. It is not intended to be predictable, consistent, or dull. Imagine a world in which human beings are not user accounts, are not programmable, and are not mere words on a display screen. That's what we're doing...</Blockquote></Blockquote></Blockquote></Blockquote>
::The above notice only appeared briefly, [http://wc3.worldcrossing.com/webx?14@@.1de35bad when the site was down for a few days]. I believe the above paragraph was composed by Somey.
::[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 08:06, 12 October 2008 (PDT)
:::As much as I believed in this statement, I am regretfully coming to conclude that "It does not exist to corrupt, but to expose corruption…" may not be the case. Specifically, liars like Mr. Baxter are welcome so long as they oppose certain Wikipedia administrators.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 14:18, 12 October 2008 (PDT)

==Joe the outcast of WR responds to elitist dribble mongers==
Well well, the problem I have is I don't have a fine HARVARD or other ELITE education from some far away remote tower of IVORY were they shit bricks of marble.

I am a simple fellow, whose values revolve around basic truths that
you don't LIE, CHEAT or STEAL and the Golden Rule... and you should be held to account for these truths.

The problem is meely-mouth, double talkers, dismiss this, in favor of moral relativism, where every person is a god and no one is bound to "higher moral authority" so evolves a culture of elitism and ends justified the means and a cesspool like wikipeida (where, as in Orwell, black is white, and 1+2=4 and where consensus can generate justification for the lies and bullshit for the sake of "consensus" and "harmony" but in the end, you get a Tyranny of the Majority and the evil you get with it.

For me, wikipeida is full of degenerate and morally bankrupted, liars, plagiarizers, slanderers, and other petty criminals and intellectual bunko artists, which, My CRUDE, UNEDUCATED AND HUMBLE OPINION, makes it a moral imperative that wikipeida is called to task, in the REAL WORLD and HELD TO ACCOUNT, IN THE REAL world and NOT HIDE, LIKE SNIVELING COWARDS, and MEELY MOUTH WORMS, to the destruction of peoples works, ideas and reputations, on the sheer whims of uncontrolled power tripping, basement dwelling pill bugs.
[[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 09:07, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:Joe, your passion is always inspiring to me. I hope that I haven't given the impression that all contributors to this new project should have impressive degrees or haughty credentials. Rather, all I ask is that the criticisms be formulated in a journalistic style of reporting that would be welcoming to an "outside" observer in the field of journalism or academia. If we go the route of the wiki, in fact, other contributors would even be able to help collaborate with those who are heavy on passion and justice, but light on citation and narrative. I tend to agree that there exists a surplus of sniveling cowards and mealy-mouthed worms on Wikipedia. But, it's our job to make that clear to neutral third parties, without coming off as misguided invective. For example, when JzG plagiarized the content of the original Arch Coal article, it was at least acceptable under the terms of the GFDL. But when, 15 months later, he deleted the original provenance of the article and then (elsewhere) claimed that this was ethically correct, being that his version was supposedly written ''ab initio'', that was a lie, and it was an act of sniveling cowardice, for which he has still not apologized, even though it would be simple to do so. Documenting activity like that will be an important part of helping the uninformed bystander to come to realize the passion and the justice which you wish to convey. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:49, 10 October 2008 (PDT)
::Those I address,will know which side of the issue they are on... obviously, not all to this place are in the ivory towers, as I described. Now, as a platform to carry out my war on wikpeida, that I tip my hat to you, the management of this place. I hope you will respect the concept of free speech were the true test of free speach is to protect speech we don't like. (I a a firm believer in this concept, which is alien to the Wipedidiots and those at WR.... is summarized in a Robert Bolt play.. "A Man of All Seasons"

----

:::William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

:::Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

:::William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

:::Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's.

----

::In other words, you protect speech and opinons and not censor them, even those that you don't like or consider good, not for the protection of the other guy you hate, but to protect your own right!!! Because without the rule of law and it's fair application, you have a situation, LIKE on the Wikipeida where Thuggery and Tyranny of the Majority and where truth gets thrown out with the rule of the mob.

::My main passion is I'm now a running for City Console, for where I will have a impact on those who are in conflict with the ideas of [http://www.adamsmith.org/smith/won-intro.htm Adam Smith] and the notion that government is a regulator and not a participant or BIG Sugar daddy or sugar daddy to grown Adult, who should take responsibility for their life's and those life's for which they are responsible for. This is in contrast to most that run wikpeida you see the mess they cause.

::Any rate I'm involved and have influence with two congressmen, and with many state and local office holders and I make sure all of the know what wikipeida is all about.

::Also, I have, as well as my friends, submitted to IRS Complaint forms regarding its 501 (3)(c) status, which is in bold face violation of said statute. Now, it may take me 20 years, but I will see Wikipeida dead as it's provides the very tools for it's own destruction, the fools that administer wikipeida are to stupid and arrogant to know where the bolt from the blue will come from and they will not be immune...see [http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1008081palin1.html some who thought they were above the law in cyberspace...the hammer of US:law][[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 15:57, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

===Expectation of quality===
Greg, you wrote: "Rather, all I ask is that the criticisms be formulated in a journalistic style of reporting that would be welcoming to an "outside" observer in the field of journalism or academia."

:I wholeheartedly support this. This has not been entirely absent at the Review, but the format doesn't support it, and some of the senior members of the site seem uninterested in it. Part of this would mean vetting allegations before they're publicized, and excising material which falls short of our standards, which would leave many contributors to the Review with little to say. Of course, posters might upgrade their standards - you never know if you don't ask. Wikipedia Review lacks this expectation of quality.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 16:01, 10 October 2008 (PDT) (Timothy Usher)

::Kato has disclosed to me two of the principles that he appreciated learning from me over the past year on W-R. One was the concept of a "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind#Interpersonal_understanding_of_mental_states theory of mind]" (accurately recognizing and identifying such mental states as beliefs, intentions, desires, motivations, and pretensions of knowledge of another person). Another is the scientific concept of evidence-based reasoning. In journalism (as in mainstream science) we adopt evidence-based reasoning to avoid publishing ungrounded flights of fancies (e.g. hypothesized conspiracy theories) as if they were established facts grounded in scientifically reviewed evidence, analysis, and reasoning. Furthermore, given any alternate hypothesis that purports to overthrow the null hypothesis, we conscientiously employ the protocols of the Scientific Method to ''falsify'' all new hypotheses. It is upon consistent ''failure to falsify'' a novel hypothesis that it eventually emerges as a useful model that consistently makes reliable predictions. Anything less than that results in a ''constructed reality'' that mimics a cyberspace soap opera rather than the real world that we all jointly inhabit. —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 17:41, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

== Blog ==

I hope that there will be a blog or at the very least an RSS feed. I don't have the time or inclination to participate in a forum like the one described (and I'm definitely not the type of member you're looking for anyway) but I'd be pretty interested in reading the 'highlights' or at least a summary of current good topics or whatever. Just my $0.02 (~£0.01 in real currency). [[User:Naerii|Naerii]] 09:36, 10 October 2008 (PDT)
:An RSS feed can be a good thing for a relatively "paced" format like a blog, but it would be hell on a wiki. MyWikiBiz (just by example), does have a Feedburner e-mail service that can update you daily on "Recent Changes" here. That's sort of useful, if you're really a frequent visitor/user, but fairly annoying if you were a journalist or academic. Here it is, in case you're interested:
::If you would like a daily e-mail notice of what has been created or updated on MyWikiBiz.com, just complete this form.
<embed>
<form style="border:1px solid #ccc;padding:3px;text-align:center;" action="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/emailverify" method="post" target="popupwindow" onsubmit="window.open('http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/emailverifySubmit?feedId=2001427', 'popupwindow', 'scrollbars=yes,width=550,height=520');return true">Enter your email address:<input type="text" style="width:140px" name="email"/><input type="hidden" value="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~e?ffid=2001427" name="url"/><input type="hidden" value="MyWikiBiz" name="title"/><input type="hidden" name="loc" value="en_US"/><input type="submit" value="Subscribe" />Delivered by <a href="http://www.feedburner.com" target="_blank">FeedBurner</a></form>
</embed>
:--[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:41, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

==Old-Fangled Email List==

JA: Looking back over my first decade on the Internet — last millennium I still had a life — I think it's safe to say that I had vastly more productive interactions and layed down far more productive content in the process on my old email discussion groups. I know a guy, er, dude, who might be interested in this general topic area and be able to set one up PDQ. Any coherent content that we actually produce could then be munged from the archive into a wiki or whatever. Any takers? [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 11:08, 10 October 2008 (PDT)
:Personally, I find e-mail discussion lists to be a real drag on my already-swamped in-box, and I loathe the idea of "munging" content from one format to another. Seeing what is going on right now in my absence on WR is also leading me to believe that "message board" might not be the way to go. Seriously, I'm thinking wiki may be best, for all of its hated "ownership" issues, it provides the READER the most engaging way to have access to content (and content tangents) all at once. If we establish clear rules on dividing "owned" space versus "communal" space (followed by rigorous "locking" procedures), I think the result will (finally?) be a truly authoritative, reliable, and vibrant reference compendium for all who wish to know "what's wrong with today's Internet". Just my opinion. Still musing. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 12:57, 10 October 2008 (PDT)
::Over on C2.com, the original wiki, they discuss the concepts of a [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ContentCreationWiki Content Creation Wiki] and a [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ContentClassificationWiki Content Classification Wiki]. A Content Creation Wiki might work, so long as the initial participants were careful to educate people on how they work differently from Content Classification Wikis like Wikipedia. For those (like myself, actually), who prefer email, I assume there will be a way to dump every edit into a folder in my gmail account. [[User:Anthony|Anthony]] 13:19, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

== Support ==

Not sure what I can practically do at this point, but I want to chip in with a word of support on this (even though editing a wiki makes my skin crawl a little).

I have a definite split between wanting to read and think seriously about Vacuousness 2.0, and being exasperated by the flood of wikichimps currently using WR as an extra talk page.

I'm also inclined to say that the more exposé sites, the better. Wikitruth.info appeared to get a lot of information out at one time, though it seems to be stalled now.

I plan to be a participant in any new forum that comes out of this discussion.

[[User:Geoff Wilson|Geoff Wilson]] 11:09, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:::AMEN... there needs to be a forum which the Concept of free speech, rule of law, and respect for the idea you fight bad speech with good speech and remove the idea of "GROUP THINK" and "THOUGHT CRIME" and "PC" A forum were ideas stand the test of augment with the ad humiumin non-sense of killing the messenger or the wikian idea of "SOCKPUPPET" is truly is offensive since you judge the idea and not the messenger. WikiRewiew has lost it's way and has dropped the ball in favor if APPESMENT OF THE POWER DRUNK WIKIPEDIDOT ADMIN.

A side message to those admin of wikipeida that read these words... I SPIT ON YOU and YOUR COWARDLINESS (This for Robert "Gamaliel" Fernandez, Mark A<sshole> "Raul654"Pellegrini, and my very local beer and new age ashram-ite cultist, Scott the "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Goethean "Goethean" Zim..] ... IF YOU DON"T LIKE WHAT I SAY, COME HERE and FACE ME, TOE TO TOE, LIKE MEN instead like the SPINLESS WORMS you have shown your self all to be, by action and deed.

Sorry for rants right now, due the fact I seethe with hate for liars, Cheaters, thief's,who steal people ideas and souls (reputations) and the bold fact Hypocrisy which runs unchecked and unchallenged.
[[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 16:27, 10 October 2008 (PDT)
:Besides the very obvious hypocrisy of criticizing others for "ad humiumin" attacks, hostile and barely-literate screeds of this nature bring this page into disrepute. Accordingly, I propose removing them.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 18:35, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

::While I'm not at this time going to remove the rant-like comments, I am ''prepared'' to remove them. I think that the arrival of Joe, and Blissy, and Moulton, and indeed Jon and myself, is a point of concern and of opportunity. I will not participate in this new project if it is just another Internet free-for-all. However, I also want it to be a chance for anyone who has the capability to contribute '''within our designated format and our agreed-upon guidelines''', to do so. Lord knows, if you cannot or choose not to write in a fluid, understandable, journalistic manner, there are about a million other fora where you can write in the manner that you wish. We who will assemble in this new forum have both an entitlement and an obligation to maintain the joint the way we want it maintained. I think the parameters should be set by a small team (3 or 5 persons who are willing and able to put in the effort), and then they enforce the standards of content quality, contributor behavior, and drama suppression. If that means this cannot be an "open" forum, so be it. If that means "by invitation only" is the way to go, so be it. I'd prefer to try that it be as open as possible, but that may not be workable. Right now, we're just talking about possibilities, so that's why I'm not removing comments. Thanks for listening; I hope I've got it sort of "right" for a good portion of you. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:35, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:::Allowing people to contribute and get attached before banning them is a horrible idea. People don't get angry at publications to which they were never invited to contribute. It's unfair to someone to dangle before him the prospect of finally having a place where his voice can be heard, allow him to sink his time into it, and then stand in public judgment over him. So does Wikipedia creates its malcontents.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 22:27, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

::::Proabivouac, you're an arogant ass, who elected you to be a back seat wikipedidiot AssMin. If you don't like my screeds, then don't read them. [[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 23:18, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:::::Joe, upthread you wrote:
<BlockQuote><BlockQuote><BlockQuote><BlockQuote><BlockQuote><BlockQuote><BlockQuote><BlockQuote><BlockQuote>
AMEN... there needs to be a forum which the Concept of free speech, rule of law, and respect for the idea you fight bad speech with good speech and remove the idea of "GROUP THINK" and "THOUGHT CRIME" and "PC" A forum were ideas stand the test of augment with the ad humiumin non-sense of killing the messenger or the wikian idea of "SOCKPUPPET" is truly is offensive since you judge the idea and not the messenger. WikiRewiew has lost it's way and has dropped the ball in favor if APPESMENT OF THE POWER DRUNK WIKIPEDIDOT ADMIN. 
</BlockQuote></BlockQuote></BlockQuote></BlockQuote></BlockQuote></BlockQuote></BlockQuote></BlockQuote></BlockQuote>
:::::Among those notions, Joe, one stands out for me: '''Rule of Law'''.
:::::Do you have faith in the Rule of Law? If so, why?
:::::[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 15:09, 11 October 2008 (PDT)
::::::You should have read what I wrote fully in the section above. "...In other words, you protect speech and opinions and not censor them, even those that you don't like or consider good, not for the protection of the other guy you hate, but to protect your own right!!! Because without the rule of law and it's fair application, you have a situation, LIKE on the Wikipeida where Thuggery and Tyranny of the Majority and where truth gets thrown out with the rule of the mob...."

::::::Moulton, Read, think, then write. [[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 20:06, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:::::::Permit me to rephrase the question, Joe. Do you have faith in the Rule of Law? If so, why? —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 21:09, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

==When can we start?==
I'm ready to stop posting to Wikipedia Review right now. There are three or four things that I'm pissed off about, and this Greg/Selina conflict is a good straw to break the camels back. You need to set this new forum up right now, like today or tomorrow. Don't make the same mistake as the House of Representatives and fail to pass the bailout measure by the end of the day Monday. Greg, you know my email address if you need any technical support. [[User:Anthony|Anthony]] 13:29, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:Wow, this is a bit of a surprise to me. I thought one of the failures of Wikipedia was that they set off to launch the project before really thinking out what they OUGHT to do for it to be successful in fulfilling the stated mission. I feel like a "let's get this hammered out this weekend" approach would be ill advised, but... I'm also a spontaneous person at heart. How do others feel about it? We're still drawing in new people, so that's a sign (to me) that disgruntled WRers already "know" that they have a place to come, at least for the moment. Personally, I'd think a more reasonable target date for launch would be November 1 or something like that. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 14:01, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:: Very much against splitting the 'broad church' of Wikipedia Review with all its flaws and idiosyncracies. As I said, I'm content with trying to document the abuse in a careful and well-sourced way, that a complete outsider, such as a journalist or adviser to the [[Sloan Foundation]] could pick up and read with interest or disgust. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 00:25, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:: Try starting on Guy Fawkes Day (November 5th). That is when the original WR started. You might think that that is bad, but the current WR people like to pretend that various things in WR's history didn't happen, or didn't happen then. Starting on November 5th would be a good time because it would indicate that you are aiming for truth, and it would also recognise the original aims of Wikipedia Review and the original people who were involved in it who did so much to make it what it is today. Since you are aiming for November 1st anyway, why not wait 4 more days? Planning is good, and I wonder if you have planned for long enough. Indeed, the original WR should have planned more, although I am not sure that that is part of the problems that exist today. If they had planned more, they probably would never have allowed pro-Wikipedia people to come in the first place, would have required registration and would have started on a place that had non-public forums. The planning for the new domain name was well thought out, about 2 1/2 months worth of planning actually went into it. The issue wasn't so much that the planning was bad, but rather that it all fell apart when Selina took control. We have been trying to get things to go back to our plan ever since. If the original plans had been allowed to happen, well, WR today would be a much better place. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 08:19, 12 October 2008 (PDT)

==Invitation-only==

I propose that participation be by invitation only. Good posters to the Review and elsewhere can be identified and invited. This way, people won't feel as bad for not being allowed to write for us: no one has to be "blocked" or "banned" (public disgrace and all that.) [[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 17:14, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

:: I propose that you (Proabivouan) be banned, due to fact you want to create another wikipeidan like cesspool. I don't think you have much to offer, except your wiki apologists mumbo jumbo. All you want Proabivouna is to create an elitist colony of wikpedia cultist, embracing group think and thought crime and to leave behind any sense of fair play or respect for others and their points of view. You to much wraped up, as a Wikpeidiot, and can't fathom normal interaction and debate. I wonder if you have sucked down way to much jimbo juice. [[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 23:35, 10 October 2008 (PDT)

::::Joe, please exhibit your evidence and reasoning for the <s>fact</s> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind#Interpersonal_understanding_of_mental_states ''theory of mind''] that "Proabiviouac "wants to create another Wikipedian-like cesspool." —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 15:15, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:::Yup.[[User:Proabivouac|Proabivouac]] 02:31, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:I agree that Proabivouac should not be included, as he has deliberately lied in a major investigation, and refused to correct his evidence after over a month of lying. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 19:04, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

::Blissy, what is your evidence and reasoning to support the thesis that any errors in Proabiv's account are knowing and intentional acts of deception? —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 21:14, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:::I don't know that they are knowingly deceptive. I do know that what he said about me is false, and I have proven this, and for over a month he has known that this was false but has refused to change it. It is still false to this day. When he changes it with a note to say "Sorry, woops, my bad" then perhaps we can discuss whether or not he meant to deceive. Until then, it is fair to say that someone that refuses to change a lie for over a month is deliberately deceiving. Not to mention the amount of smears on my name by Alison and others based on Proabivouac's lies. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 22:59, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

::::Blissy, it is common for people to be in error. It is uncommon for people to be ''intentionally deceptive''. The word "lie" is normally used to refer to an ''intentional deception'', as opposed to a simple misconception. Please do not apply the term "lie" to a falsehood unless you are prepared to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the person knowingly and intentionally propagated a substantive falsehood for the intended purpose of misleading or deceiving others. It is lamentable that many such errors go uncorrected in the venue where they initially appear. I struggle with this same problem myself, so I know how it feels to observe a false characterization in a venue where I am powerless to post a correction, challenge, or rebuttal. Let us not repeat that kind of ''tsuris'' here. —[[User:Moulton|Moulton]] 07:45, 12 October 2008 (PDT)

:::::Okay 2 things that I would like: 1) Don't call me Blissy - it is Blissyu2, or you can call me Adrian if you hate putting in the "u2" in there. That is a joke based on my allergies and my sneezing 15-20 times per day, every day, for the past 25 years. Blissy means nothing, and I find it really annoying. 2) I would like it if you, Alison, and everyone else who has debated about my right to prove that someone is lying about me instead focussed on fixing up the lie. Sorry, but if someone has lied about me, damaged my real name and my reputation, initiated dozens of other smears about me, then I *DO* have a right to prove them wrong. Furthermore, I *DO* have a right to call them a liar. As I said, if and when Proabviouc removes his statements and adds in a public apology on that page to say that he was mistaken, with a reasonable explanation why, then I will accept that. Alternatively, if he is prepared to try to prove, in a court of law, that what he has said about me is true, then we can go through that route. Rather than trying to "debate" about my right to call him a liar for, uh, lying about me, why don't you instead try to use that energy to get him to get rid of those awful, false, hurtful statements that he made that look true in a believable-looking document? Huh? [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 08:28, 12 October 2008 (PDT)

==Envoi==

<pre>
my customary rule about not arguing with cats and infants
has now been extended to include wikipediots,
and my definition of a wikipediot
has now been expanded to include
anyone who thinks that wikipedia
can be fixed.

i have no interest in a wikified version of wikipedia review
if it's going to include wikipediots and pseudonyms --

life is just too short for that ...
</pre>
[[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 06:06, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

==Answer for Jon==
For the sake of engaging Jon Awbrey, and out of risk of being call Der Untermensch in the eyes of Jon, I will
say anonymous speech is recognized and protected, and has a very long history in American Law and culture, and as such has a place, to allow debate with out fear and chilling effects of real world reprisals
[http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/legal-protections-anonymous-speechlink title]

Now, if a pseudonym statements (speech) is shown with out merit or is that of liable or defamation
then it should be delete by those who is the Publisher of the said writings, other wise allow to stand and judge on merit and not author.

See this stated from the Northern District of California in Columbia Ins. Co. v. Seescandy.com,32 and cited excerpt from that California case:
<blockquote>People are permitted to interact pseudonymously and anonymously with each other ''so long as those acts are not in violation of the law''(italic mine). This ability to speak one’s mind without the burden of the other party knowing all the facts about one’s identity can foster open communication and robust debate. Furthermore, it permits persons to obtain information relevant to a sensitive or intimate condition without fear of embarrassment. People ''who have committed no wrong''(italic mine) should be able to participate online without fear that someone who wishes to harass or embarrass them can file ''a frivolous lawsuit''(Italic mine...''note you sill have the right to sue if case has merit to go after'') and thereby gain the power of the court’s order to discover their identity.33</blockquote>

In the end, bad free speech should be judged on it's own merits, not by the fact it's a "SOCK" or other pseudonyms.

This protection don't apply to those who wish to be a publisher (ie) Operator, Moderator, or other Admin with editorial power, this class of user should have real names and address tied to them, so those defamed can call to task, for any liable and/or defamation allowed to be publish, so those whose are defamed have protection from said defamation. This is where I differ from jon on this subject, but for the sake of Jon, I am willing to remove my Guy Fawkes mask to jon as long as he continues to respects my pseudonym [[User:Joehazelton|Joehazelton]] 20:56, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

:Apparently everyone else knows who you are, Joe, but I have never heard of you. I thought that the only people banned from Wikipedia Review (which, incidentally, was founded on Guy Fawkes day in 2005) were former administrators and founding members plus the 3 trolls Malber, Grace Note and Amorrow. I didn't realise that you were ever there, let alone that you were banned. Maybe we should talk.

:Anyway, relating to this issue, it is a very controversial one. I initially used the internet with my real name, but I ended up getting a lot of stupid phone calls that led to me having to change my phone number (and even making it a silent number), and then later someone found out my real name and made up a huge smear against me in 2002/03, that had my real name and real details next to things that weren't true. That person, for the record, claimed to be using their real name and real details in doing so, but they really weren't. Also note that Poetlister had claimed various real names, but they weren't real names. Using real names or not is not enough, nor is it helpful. If people individually want to do that, by all means they should be able to, but it shouldn't be enforced. Anything that is libellous should obviously be removed, but that should be the case whether the person saying it uses their real name or not. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 23:11, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

==Not everyone is going to agree==

When Wikipedia Review began, it had no clear purpose. As Igor Alexander originally said "This is a Wikipedia anti-fan site". It was designed to destroy Wikipedia.

One of the great things about the site is that it encouraged everyone to participate. It never cared who people were, just to get their perspective. One of the great aspects of the site was that it was more truthful and open than Wikipedia. Before Wikipedia Review began, on or around Guy Fawke's Day in 2005, there was nowhere to go to to talk openly about Wikipedia's problems.

This idea wasn't ideal though, and eventually some level of moderation was required. Eventually people were required to log in, and a group of people devoted to the idea set up its own domain name and certain rules.

The main problem with Wikipedia Review was that we banned the founder, and got rid of everyone who had ever done anything good with the site. On a minor level, lots of posts were wiped by Selina with no real explanation, as a form of censorship. Selina, and now Somey, are still at it. Notice how after I "left" suddenly my post count went from 6,200 down to 4,500? And how all of a sudden all posts made by me or anyone else in relation to my being the owner were suddenly gone? That kind of thing was a real problem. Posts should only be deleted because they are illegal, not to change truth.

People are going to disagree about what the problems are with Wikipedia. They are going to disagree with what the solutions are. People, in turn, are going to disagree about what is an improvement on the Wikipedia Review idea. Essentially, therefore, I suggest making it mostly the same but with one or two key changes. I suggest making sure that people who have put in a lot of effort to make the site good be encouraged - regardless of whether you like them. Ban people for doing something illegal, not as a power trip. The fact that most of the people banned from Wikipedia Review are former administrators/founders is a very, very bad thing. Yes, Malber, Amorrow and Grace Note deserved to be banned. But Igor Alexander and Blu Aardvark certainly did not.

One thing that I think needs to be encouraged more is to focus on the big issues. Wikipedia is a problem because it is big, it is trusted far too much, and it has the ability to change truth.

If people focussed on those big issues, and tried to look for more examples than just the Lockerbie Bombing and Port Arthur massacre articles (which both have conspiracy theories associated with them and are parts of major cover ups in real life as well) then a criticism site could be more useful. If people focussed more on the articles than on any inter-personal conflict, then things would work better.

Wikipedia Review has, through its history, been overrun with interpersonal conflict disrupting the actual criticism. Ultimately, people are going to disagree, and really, who cares? So long as they aren't doing anything illegal, does it really matter? Most of the interpersonal conflict issues, though, were started by people trying to destroy the site. I really see no reason why they should even be included in the site at all. No Wikipedia administrators allowed. No vehemently pro-Wikipedia people allowed. Nobody who hates the site allowed. Why allow it? Just have people that are trying to help the site. Less interpersonal conflict then, and it is more genuine. Then you can encourage people who are good for the site, and people who love Wikipedia can quite simply go elsewhere. [[User:Blissyu2|Blissyu2]] 20:51, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-09T17:51:11Z

Nathan: /* Consider the Crowdsource */ ok

==Notes & Queries==

'''JA:''' I guess my first criticism would be a worry about the name "crowdsourcing". It clangs me wrong somehow. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 12:12, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''NR:''' My thoughts: Do I even have real-world credentials? Now there's a problem. Why not have a message board ''and'' a wiki? There are good and bad points to having either one.

'''NR:''' On the thought of what domain name to use: I think <s>MimboJimbo.com</s> (no, that is a very bad idea) something that implies what we're doing (Wiki..something) would be suitable. (Well OK taking the piss out of Jimbo, we can do that in other ways without using the domain name to do it, it also doesn't seem professional, why I thought that was a good idea, I'll never know) — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 19:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

'''JA:''' I've grown weary of fixating on (1) Wikipedia (2) Wikipedia Personae. Yes, most of our concrete data and hard experience comes from those sources — though I did see the very same dynamics in Citizendium despite the one bug fix that Sanger tried to implement — but we need to view that data and experience as cases under generic concepts, and focus on the genus not the individuals. So "MimboJimbo" would probably lead us down the wrong path. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 12:30, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''PW:''' I'm afraid that I really don't like "MimboJimbo" either, as it gives a rather "Monty Python" impression and is also inherently negative. If we want to be taken seriously, we've got to have a neutral name which doesn't imply a result (we already know that the result is going to be negative, but we don't need to come out and say that...Best to let people read the evidence and make their own minds up). So, the actual name of the site should be neutral, rather scientific, yet precise. I've suggested "WikiAnalysis" (first choice) and "WikiReader" (second choice)...However, there must be other possibilities.

==Consider the Crowdsource==

'''GK:''' The only ready synonym for "crowdsourcing" that comes to my mind is "user-generated content", or "Web 2.0". Nathan, you have credentials, in that you have a location, a job, and schooling, which is really all I'm looking for. I think MimboJimbo is way off... I was just mentioning which domains I actually hold claim to. Really, I'm thinking that the domain should be something simple and descriptive (but still available), along the lines of "critiquesofthecrowd.com". -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 13:37, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''JA:''' Okay, let's talk about that. I probably need to start by trying to articulate my inklings, irklings, or reservations about the term.
* When I hear "crowdsource" it calls to mind one of the prime directives of critical thinking, to wit, "Consider The Source!"
** That leads me to ask:
*** Is the crowd the source?
*** If we mean that the crowd is the source, is that a Good, a Bad, or an Indifferent thing?
'''JA:''' That's about as far as I get for now. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 13:52, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

'''PW:''' The whole idea of "crowd sourcing" as it relates to Wikis is a fallacy. First of all, not everyone has access to a computer and of those that do, not everyone is necessarily able to forcibly vehicle their point of view effectively against the "Voice of the Crowd". The demographics of Wikipedia already show the inherent problems with calling what is produced "the sum of all human knowledge" as there are clearly elements of the subset of humans who are not present in the demographics of Wikipedia. So, what is happening in Web 2.0 is clearly not "crowd" sourcing, but the re-enforcement of the idea that "we are those who define reality". It's a celebration of "Us", which implies a "them" and the division that this implies. The WP:En experience serves very well as a test case for this hypothesis. So, perhaps the "crowd sourcing" angle is too limitative and not the entire phenomenon?

'''NR:''' I actually do not have two of the things that you mention (I've expanded on this via e-mail). Anyway, that's a better idea for a domain name. It's more descriptive in terms of what the site would actually do. I don't know what I was thinking, really. I also agree, it's probably not possible (or prudent) to use "Wikipedia" as part of the domain name. — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 22:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

'''PW:''' Nathan, I don't think that this has to be so complicated. We can trace you to a real person and it's obvious that you are indeed that person. That's fine by me.

'''NR:''' Okay, that works then. — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 17:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

==Suggest we move to the "article"==

'''GK:''' Might I suggest that we move from "thoughtful conversation mode" here on the Discussion page, over to the wiki-mode "Article" page. Let's craft a collection of principles and ideas that we all can live with, and once we get to that point, we can decide on exactly how to execute. If we start to see "edit wars" on the Article page, even among us friends, then that will itself be an indicator that our ideas are not on a level-set.

'''JA:''' For reasons I will tell you about off-line, my mind and time are a bit scattered right now, and I probably won't be up to careful analysis or sustained discussion for another week or so. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 07:07, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

'''GK:''' We'll miss you, but we fully understand, Jon. This is only "web kvetching", you know, and should be toward the bottom of all our priorities!

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-09T08:58:28Z

Nathan: /* Notes & Queries */ meh

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-09T08:57:07Z

Nathan: /* Notes & Queries */

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-09T08:56:53Z

Nathan: /* Notes & Queries */ edit strike

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-09T08:55:20Z

Nathan: /* Notes & Queries */ strike that

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-09T08:49:25Z

Nathan: more thoughts

Directory:Nathan Richards

2008-10-08T22:42:04Z

Nathan: this list is nowhere near complete

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
{|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%"
|
{{Infobox_Person
| name = [[Person_First_Name:=Nathan]] [[Person_Last_Name:=Richards]]
| other_names = ''[[Nickname:=Nathan, nathanr, nathanrdotca]]''
| residence = [[City:=Ottawa|[[Directory:Ottawa, Ontario|Ottawa]]]], [[State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| image =
| imagesize = 175px
| caption =
| birth_date = [[Birth Date:=1976-07-03|[[1976-07-03]]]]
| birth_place = [[Birth_City:=Toronto|[[Directory:Toronto, Ontario|Toronto]]]], [[Birth_State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Birth_Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| birth_name =
| death_date =
| death_place =
| death_cause =
| occupation =
| known =
| contact = [[Email:=http://nathanr.ca/contact|[http://nathanr.ca/contact Email]]] [[Blog:=nathanr|ca|[http://nathanr.ca Blog (nathanr|ca)]]]
| reference = [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.417|45°25′1.2″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.7|75°42'W]] 
}}

{{Infobox_Personal
| physical = [[Person_Race:=White]] [[Person_Gender:=Male]], [[Person_Height:=70]] inches, [[Person_Weight:=180]] pounds, [[Person_Hair:=Brown]] Hair, [[Person_Eyes:=Blue]] Eyes
| profession =
| credential =
| member =
| party = [[Political_Party:=New Democratic Party|[[Directory:New Democratic Party|New Democratic Party]]]]
| religion =
| marital = [[Marital_Status:=Single]]
| children = [[Number_Children:=0]]
| relations =
| friends =
| interests = [[Subject_Interest::Movies]], [[Subject_Interest::Music]], [[Subject_Interest::Science]], [[Subject_Interest::Sociology]], [[Subject_Interest::Travel]]
}}

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.417|-75.7}}

<embed>
<script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=&up_loc=Ottawa%2C%20Ontario%2C%20Canada&up_zoom=Region&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC&output=js"></script>
</embed>

<adsense>
google_ad_client = 'ca-pub-9146030392150029';
google_ad_width = 468;
google_ad_height = 60;
google_ad_format = '468x60_as';
google_ad_type = 'text_image';//2006-12-28: Centiare Directory space
google_ad_channel = '2388332058';
google_color_border = '6699CC';
google_color_bg = '003366';
google_color_link = 'FFFFFF';
google_color_text = 'AECCEB';
google_color_url = 'AECCEB';
</adsense>
|}

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-08T22:39:58Z

Nathan: /* Consider the Crowdsource */

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-08T22:39:02Z

Nathan: /* Consider the Crowdsource */

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-08T19:17:00Z

Nathan:

==Notes & Queries==

JA: I guess my first criticism would be a worry about the name "crowdsourcing". It clangs me wrong somehow. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 12:12, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

My thoughts: Do I even have real-world credentials? Now there's a problem. Why not have a message board ''and'' a wiki? There are good and bad points to having either one.

On the thought of what domain name to use: I think MimboJimbo.com would be suitable. — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 19:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-08T19:15:42Z

Nathan: dang signature

==Notes & Queries==

JA: I guess my first criticism would be a worry about the name "crowdsourcing". It clangs me wrong somehow. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 12:12, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

My thoughts: Do I even have real-world credentials? Now there's a problem.

On the thought of what domain name to use: I think MimboJimbo.com would be suitable. — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 19:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Criticism of crowdsourcing

2008-10-08T19:15:24Z

Nathan:

==Notes & Queries==

JA: I guess my first criticism would be a worry about the name "crowdsourcing". It clangs me wrong somehow. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 12:12, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

My thoughts: Do I even have real-world credentials? Now there's a problem.

On the thought of what domain name to use: I think MimboJimbo.com would be suitable. — [[User:Nathan|'''Nathan''']] ([[User talk:Nathan|'''talk''']]) / 19:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC) 12:15, 8 October 2008 (PDT)

Directory:Nathan Richards

2008-05-26T04:23:20Z

Nathan: not anymore

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
{|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%"
|
{{Infobox_Person
| name = [[Person_First_Name:=Nathan]] [[Person_Last_Name:=Richards]]
| other_names = ''[[Nickname:=Nathan, nathanr, nathanrdotca]]''
| residence = [[City:=Ottawa|[[Directory:Ottawa, Ontario|Ottawa]]]], [[State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| image =
| imagesize = 175px
| caption =
| birth_date = [[Birth Date:=1976-07-03|[[1976-07-03]]]]
| birth_place = [[Birth_City:=Toronto|[[Directory:Toronto, Ontario|Toronto]]]], [[Birth_State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Birth_Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| birth_name =
| death_date =
| death_place =
| death_cause =
| occupation =
| known =
| contact = [[Email:=http://nathanr.ca/contact|[http://nathanr.ca/contact Email]]] [[Blog:=nathanr|ca|[http://nathanr.ca Blog (nathanr|ca)]]]
| reference = [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.417|45°25′1.2″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.7|75°42'W]] 
}}

{{Infobox_Personal
| physical = [[Person_Race:=White]] [[Person_Gender:=Male]], [[Person_Height:=70]] inches, [[Person_Weight:=180]] pounds, [[Person_Hair:=Brown]] Hair, [[Person_Eyes:=Blue]] Eyes
| profession =
| credential =
| member =
| party = [[Political_Party:=New Democratic Party|[[Directory:New Democratic Party|New Democratic Party]]]]
| religion =
| marital = [[Marital_Status:=Single]]
| children = [[Number_Children:=0]]
| relations =
| friends =
| interests = [[Subject_Interest::Movies]], [[Subject_Interest::Music]], [[Subject_Interest::Sociology]], [[Subject_Interest::Travel]]
}}

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.417|-75.7}}

<embed>
<script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=&up_loc=Ottawa%2C%20Ontario%2C%20Canada&up_zoom=Region&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC&output=js"></script>
</embed>

<adsense>
google_ad_client = 'ca-pub-9146030392150029';
google_ad_width = 468;
google_ad_height = 60;
google_ad_format = '468x60_as';
google_ad_type = 'text_image';//2006-12-28: Centiare Directory space
google_ad_channel = '2388332058';
google_color_border = '6699CC';
google_color_bg = '003366';
google_color_link = 'FFFFFF';
google_color_text = 'AECCEB';
google_color_url = 'AECCEB';
</adsense>
|}

Directory:Nathan Richards

2008-05-26T04:23:02Z

Nathan: not anymore

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
{|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%"
|
{{Infobox_Person
| name = [[Person_First_Name:=Nathan]] [[Person_Last_Name:=Richards]]
| other_names = ''[[Nickname:=Nathan, nathanr, nathanrdotca]]''
| residence = [[City:=Ottawa|[[Directory:Ottawa, Ontario|Ottawa]]]], [[State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| image =
| imagesize = 175px
| caption =
| birth_date = [[Birth Date:=1976-07-03|[[1976-07-03]]]]
| birth_place = [[Birth_City:=Toronto|[[Directory:Toronto, Ontario|Toronto]]]], [[Birth_State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Birth_Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| birth_name =
| death_date =
| death_place =
| death_cause =
| occupation =
| known =
| contact = [[Email:=http://nathanr.ca/contact|[http://nathanr.ca/contact Email]]] [[Blog:=nathanr|ca|[http://nathanr.ca Blog (nathanr|ca)]]]
| reference = [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.417|45°25′1.2″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.7|75°42'W]] 
}}

{{Infobox_Personal
| physical = [[Person_Race:=White]] [[Person_Gender:=Male]], [[Person_Height:=70]] inches, [[Person_Weight:=180]] pounds, [[Person_Hair:=Brown]] Hair, [[Person_Eyes:=Blue]] Eyes
| profession = Director of Technical Services
| credential =
| member =
| party = [[Political_Party:=New Democratic Party|[[Directory:New Democratic Party|New Democratic Party]]]]
| religion =
| marital = [[Marital_Status:=Single]]
| children = [[Number_Children:=0]]
| relations =
| friends =
| interests = [[Subject_Interest::Movies]], [[Subject_Interest::Music]], [[Subject_Interest::Sociology]], [[Subject_Interest::Travel]]
}}

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.417|-75.7}}

<embed>
<script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=&up_loc=Ottawa%2C%20Ontario%2C%20Canada&up_zoom=Region&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC&output=js"></script>
</embed>

<adsense>
google_ad_client = 'ca-pub-9146030392150029';
google_ad_width = 468;
google_ad_height = 60;
google_ad_format = '468x60_as';
google_ad_type = 'text_image';//2006-12-28: Centiare Directory space
google_ad_channel = '2388332058';
google_color_border = '6699CC';
google_color_bg = '003366';
google_color_link = 'FFFFFF';
google_color_text = 'AECCEB';
google_color_url = 'AECCEB';
</adsense>
|}

User:Nathan

2008-05-26T04:22:27Z

Nathan:

The owner of this account is [[Directory:Nathan Richards|Nathan Richards]].

==External links==
'''{{FULLPAGENAME}}''' is the page "owner" of [[Page Owner Of::Directory:Nathan Richards]].

==Internal links==
Subject Interests: [[Subject Interest::Category:Wikipedia]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia scandals]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia Vandalism]]

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2008-05-26T04:21:38Z

Nathan: Please delete - I no longer work there.

Help:Water Cooler (miscellaneous)

2008-02-01T06:09:39Z

Nathan: Replaced links - Centiare: -> MyWikiBiz:

<noinclude>
{{WC contents back}}
----
 
{{WaterCoolerPages|Miscellaneous|The '''miscellaneous''' section of the water cooler is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please try to post within [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (news)|news]], [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (policy)|policy]], [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (technical)|technical]], [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (proposals)|proposals]] or [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (assistance)|assistance]] rather than here.}}
</noinclude>

__TOC__

==Linking==

If there is room for my 2 cents in this discussion, here goes:
I disagree with encouraging an Internal links sections in main space articles. It is just duplicating what Wikipedia does and is, non semantic. The ASK query function promotes users to tag there own articles appropriately to automatically get displayed on main space (a thing of beauty). This should also motivate users to create main space articles and add an ASK query. See [[Cigarette]] with the Attribute:Keyword query. The search engines are working in some way that is not completly understandable to us. The engines will catch up or they already have. The more comfortable users become with semantic tagging and start imagining all the endless possibilities:
* more page creation
* longer visitor lengths
* more traffic
* higher page rank
* higher site rank
* a successful semantic mediawiki
If all of this happens then one backlink at Centiare is golden.--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 07:39, 16 January 2007 (PST)

:SATIRE ALERT!!
:Nobody asked you your opinion, Omni. If you continue to butt in on our Talk page discussions, we will ban your account. We are trying to build a directory, here. ...Oh. Wait. '''Sorry'''. This isn't Wikipedia, is it? ;-) --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:59, 16 January 2007 (PST)

==Marketing & Promotion==
===Background===
With continuing reports of dissatisfaction amongst wikipedians, it's becoming more evident that [[keyword:=Wikipedia's business model is fundamentally flawed]]. Without the ability to protect one's contributions, and/or debate in a fair and rational manner without undo favoritism given towards certain (cabals of) editors, the incentives to create original content becomes somewhat muted.

We feel Centiare addresses these main points by providing both protected Directory space for advocacy and traditional main space NPOV. Even better, via the [[MyWikiBiz:Aficionados|Aficionados]] mechanism, we provide a legitimate means of allowing users to cross-reference interests/contributions from main space articles to directory listings. In this way, ''[[keyword:=Aficionados]]'' eliminate the temptation for main space link spam and/or other commercial activities, and helps keeps main space articles clean and on-point.

Given Centiare's technical (semantic tags, protected space) & policy advantages, we feel it's the proper time to discuss what marketing & promotional efforts might be undertaken to increase overall awareness. The remainder of this section is an open forum to discuss ideas, initiatives and other activities. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:25, 3 March 2007 (PST)
----
===Spring 2007 - Organization/Association marketing===
It is my goal to contact at least 500 different organizations and associations that aggregate the types of entities who would be welcome at Centiare (e.g., Little League Baseball, the American Dental Association, League of Women Voters, etc.) I want my message to be clear and three-fold:
#The organization should have its own article within the Centiare [[MyWikiBiz:Directory Space|Directory Space]] (e.g., [[Directory:American Dental Association]])
#The organization should contribute to relevant articles within the Centiare [[MyWikiBiz:Main Space|Main Space]] (e.g., [[Dentistry]], [[Bruxism]], [[Gingivitis]])
#The organization, once it sees the benefits of Centiare and its inherent advantages over Wikipedia, should encourage its members to create their own Directory articles (e.g., [[Directory:Delores M. Dains, DDS]], [[Directory:Monarch Dental Associates]])
For each of the recipients, it is my intent to customize the letter so that:
*The recipient is already identified as the Communication, Marketing, Electronic Media, or Public Relations contact at the organization.
*Each letter will be customized very deliberately, as in the American Dental Association example immediately above.
I will post the text of my planned letter very shortly, and then the Centiare community can help improve it for the next day or two. At the same time, I'm going to create a link where Centiare "worker bees" might recommend future organizations and (especially) the contact info of the appropriate person at the association. That's going to be the most tedious part of this campaign. As we get underway with the mailings, I will also plan to follow up with each recipient with a telephone call, approximately 2-3 days after they should have received the letter. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 21:20, 4 March 2007 (PST)

:Since you're the expert on military history, you well understand the importance of momentum. Wikipedia seems to be garnering more criticism each day; check out this article from the [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/technology/05wikipedia.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin New York Times]. Now is the time to make people aware of the numerous advantages Centiare provides. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 07:46, 5 March 2007 (PST)

====Form letter 1====
<div style="padding: 0px; background: #FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #0581B5; margin:5px 0px;">
:Please take the liberty of wiki-editing this proposed form letter that would go to organizations and associations who would benefit from involvement in Centiare space.</div> 
+CONTACT+ 
+TITLE+ 
+ORGANIZATION+ 
+ADDRESS+ 

Dear +CONTACT+,

According to comScore, nearly 165 million unique visitors made use of the online encyclopedia Wikipedia in the final month of 2006. As the +ORGANIZATION+’s +TITLE+, I’m sure you’re well aware of your group’s own article on Wikipedia, but did you know that:

:(a) You are not allowed to edit the article itself? 
:(b) You can’t respond in the article space to other editors who might push an opposing agenda or a critical point of view about your organization? 

These seemingly necessary abilities are strictly forbidden by the Wikipedia management and community. My partners and I feel that Wikipedia is, therefore, flawed in that it has an inherent (if not pernicious) bias against businesses and organizations. That’s why we’re constructing -- with our own out-of-pocket resources -- an alternative wiki directory called '''Centiare.com'''. Centiare welcomes and encourages organizations like your own to come and tell your story the way you want it told. Without sounding too much like a sales pitch, I want to make 3 things perfectly clear:

#The +ORGANIZATION+ should have its own article within the Centiare Directory Space (e.g., Directory:+ORGANIZATION+). You can start that article today.
#Your organization is welcome to contribute to relevant articles within the Centiare Main Space (e.g., +EXAMPLE1+, +EXAMPLE2+, +EXAMPLE3+).
#Once +ORGANIZATION+ sees the benefits of Centiare and its inherent advantages over Wikipedia, you should encourage your members to create their own Directory articles (e.g., Directory:+EXAMPLE4+, Directory:+EXAMPLE5+) to support their own agendas.

While Centiare is not as mammoth as Wikipedia, we are growing by leaps and bounds because we offer many more technological advantages than Wikipedia, including Semantic Web architecture (which makes Google search results prioritize Centiare listings), user-protected space commingled with community-edited space, and the ability to embed videos, document downloads, and even advertising on our pages.

I hope you’ll join this new wiki revolution by registering an account for your organization -- for FREE -- at Centiare.com. I will be giving you a brief call in the next few days, to answer any questions you may have about our new directory.

Sincerely,

Gregory Kohs 
Co-Developer of Centiare.com 
greg@centiare.com 
Cell: 302.463.1354 

====Form letter 2====
<div style="padding: 0px; background: #FFFFFF; border: 1px solid #0581B5; margin:5px 0px;">
:This is a second attempt. Trying to stay on point, and deliver the clear message of our business proposition. Thoughts & revisions are welcome.</div> 
+CONTACT+ 
+TITLE+ 
+ORGANIZATION+ 
+ADDRESS+ 

Dear +CONTACT+,

According to '''comScore''', nearly 165 million unique visitors made use of the online encyclopedia '''Wikipedia''' in the final month of 2006. Doubtless, many of these people are searching for information about your organization. As the +ORGANIZATION+’s +TITLE+, I’m sure you’re aware of your group’s own article on Wikipedia, but isn't it frustrating that you don't have control over the content presented in that community-edited space?

My partners and I feel that Wikipedia is flawed in that it has an inherent (if not pernicious) bias against businesses and organizations, and that its so-called "facts" can't really be trusted. Fortunately, there is now a better way for organizations to capitalize on the wiki information revolution. We've built an alternative wiki directory called '''Centiare.com'''. At '''Centiare''', we welcome and encourage organizations like your own to come and tell your story the way ''you want it to be told''.

'''Centiare''' offers a quick, easy way for you to create a high-ranking Directory listing that ''you'' control. And, it's absolutely free to use.

Without sounding too much like a sales pitch, I want to make 3 things perfectly clear:

#The +ORGANIZATION+ ought to have its own article within the '''Centiare''' Directory Space (e.g., Directory:+ORGANIZATION+). You can start writing that article today.
#Your organization is welcome to contribute to relevant articles within the '''Centiare''' Main Space (e.g., you can give our visitors your perspective on topics like +EXAMPLE1+, +EXAMPLE2+, +EXAMPLE3+).
#Once +ORGANIZATION+ sees the benefits of '''Centiare''' and its inherent advantages over Wikipedia, you might even encourage your '''own''' members to create Directory articles for themselves (e.g., Directory:+EXAMPLE4+, Directory:+EXAMPLE5+), to support their own business missions.

I hope you’ll join this new wiki revolution by registering your organization -- for FREE -- at '''Centiare.com'''. I will be giving you a brief call in the next few days, to answer any questions you may have about our new directory.

Sincerely,

Gregory Kohs 
Co-Developer of Centiare.com 
greg@centiare.com 
Cell: 302.463.1354 

== I doubt this letter will get results ==

Who is the target audience? Specifically, who is the contact within each organization?

What will motivate THAT PERSON to participate in, and even promote an online directory?

Your criticisms of Wikipedia resonate with people who have had run-ins there, but they are meaningless to the vast majority of people.

Your discussion of the advantages of your semantic tagging approach will again be meaningless to most people, other than hard-core techies.

I realize that you feel strongly about these things, and they are important in the long run... but they do not make an effective marketing pitch.

[[User:Wygk|Wygk]] 11:51, 5 March 2007 (PST)

:Thank you for this feedback, Wygk. Not having much experience at all in direct marketing, I have similar doubts as you. The target audience is any trade association or structured interest group that has a wide swath of members, and which has a "message" that it wishes to communicate to the world about its membership. I did give a few examples above.
:The contact within each organization will be very important. I feel that each letter must go to someone who is named as the Director or Manager of Communications, Marketing, Electronic Media, or Public Relations for the entity.
:You were a bit short on alternative solutions, Wygk. Do you think it would be better if I called people FIRST, then used a letter as a follow-up? Better to get a more famous "spokesperson" than myself? Better to give a "case study" example?
:More help is welcome! And, of course, there's always the "trial balloon". We can mail this letter + phone call option on about 20 recipients, and see what kind of response we get. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 11:54, 5 March 2007 (PST)

::I think a marketing patch should usually focus on the value proposition (what's in it for the customer?)

::As I see it, your value proposition is to provide a quality listing in a new, high-ranking directory, where the company, organization, or person has control over there own entry.

::You could ADD another value statement by making it really quick and easy to create a listing. The Wikicompany forms are very similar to what I had in mind.

::The semantic tagging feature is another value statement, but very few people are going to understand it... so don't muddle the message

::In short, the pitch to organizations and their members should be: ''Centiare offers a quick, easy way for you to create a high-quality directory listing that you control.'' [[User:Wygk|Wygk]] 12:07, 6 March 2007 (PST)

:::So you like the Wikicompany forms as well? We could do something like that to create an initial entry which could then be edited/refined. However, a big drawback with forms is that it distorts a key advantage of Wikipedia or Centiare, namely that it's completely free-form. Once you begin directing user content, then by definition, you will typically get what you directed.

:::It's why the Wikimedia Foundation seemingly backed off on their Wikidata project (correct me if I'm wrong). It's just counter-intuitive to a wiki environment. In our case, directory listings include any entity (person, place or thing) that has a legal standing. So what should be included in a form, or do we now need multiple forms? You see where this leads - people then need to be informed that there are different forms, etc.

:::I'm not sure sure that we want to take a direction away from the traditional infoboxes - it's why we use them. The professional look & feel one can achieve in a very short time is unsurpassed. Certainly, no one can create a look like that in a LAMP environment in such a short time.

:::My background is with structured data, which is why I embraced the MediaWiki platform. The poor overall look & feel of Wikicompany is a good example of what happens when efforts are extended in data collection/validation as opposed to presentation.

:::My feeling at this point is that we're dealing with a market awareness issue, not a usability problem. I should mention that we have a custom user <s>class</s> level called '''''vusers''''' that gives them the ability to make edits of directory listings without impacting their overall protection scheme. In this way, we have a couple of wikipedians helping out by providing editing services to others that don't have the skills necessary to pull together a really professional looking listing.

:::You would be an excellent candidate for this <s>class</s> level if you're interested. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 15:15, 6 March 2007 (PST)

::::I happen to think that we have as much a usability issue as an awareness issue. We have had about 150 users register an account (that is our base of "interested awareness"), but 80 of them have not made a single edit, another 35 have made less than 5 total edits, and only about 12 or 13 unique people have made more than 20 edits. If less than 10% of our registered accounts are really availing themselves of content creation, we are facing:

::::#An initial market of 90% "non-savvy" wiki coders
::::#A failure to communicate the benefits of listing content
::::#Not doing enough to "win back" dormant accounts

::::Take, for example, the fact that I have pitched Centiare to my 30+ MySpace friends, and probably 30+ additional e-mail friends. I think two people have registered from that communication, and neither of them have built out content. When I describe the site in person, for instance, at a party -- people seem to think it's a good idea. But ask them, "Have you ever edited Wikipedia?" and you get either "No, I've looked, but not edited" or "What's Wikipedia?".

::::I think we just have to keep plugging away until we hit that critical mass (hopefully close to simultaneously) when enough new businesses, organizations, people, and zealots want to be a part of Centiare every day; but those who are intimidated by "doing it yourself" will have a choice of paid assistants to serve them (a la MyWikiBiz or Page Creations). If wikis do start to take hold in the American office space, we will surely get more capable "do it yourself" users (and evangelists) from that realm. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:22, 6 March 2007 (PST)

==Make it Viral==
Time and time again people with NO talent have 1,000,000 video views on youtube because they dance with muffins or flap their man titties to celine dion. That's hella exposure with no time or skill investment.

I'm going to buy my own damn centiare t-shirt one of these fine days (Spring break is next week) and talk some big titted dumb blonde into trying to touch her elbows together behind her back while sporting the logo. Maybe have her writhe around on my sex-on-wheels new car to whitesnake's her I go again (like Tawny Kitaen) 50,000 page views garunteed. It will only target generation apathetic youth but hey look what young people got started in the 60s. Word of mouth is everything. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 14:09, 5 March 2007 (PST)

:Who's the market? Do we want Wikipedians adding Main space content? Or do we want businesses adding directory content? Or a little of both? Is there a technical hurdle that we're not addressing (like input forms), or is something as simple as brute force marketing (BFM)?

:I want to believe that it's BFM because it takes me off the hook. That is, it implies we've done our job by providing an excellent array of technical features presented in a very professional environment. If it BFM, then do we do crazy ass sh!t like you're suggesting, or continue our sincere efforts at alerting business users to the opportunities? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 16:47, 5 March 2007 (PST)

==Grand Idea==
Brute force marketing first off to attract the page views, then a super easy to find and understand slogan type sound byte to say "centiare listing = high google search". Finally accessibility is limited to wiki geeks which account for .000000000001 percent of the population and even less of the business culture.

When creating an article the template is a great start but something more familiar to the average lay person is needed. On most good sites, amazon for example, to set up an account there are fields to type in (like wikicompany is trying and failing to do).

Instead of an add a free listing have a "get started today" or "Register with centiare"

Page one - enter a valid email address, and a click box (I would like to recieve centiare newsletters and press releases)

Then a continue to step two button with a page X of Y at the bottom, similar to when I "build my car" on honda.com.

Page Two - A basic form like on wikicompany.com that allows users to just fill in the fields. Once they finish

Then page three where three options appear.

1. contact a professional. List wiki developers than can boost the rankings and qualities of their listings (i.e. me)

2. Start the centiare tutorial. Create a super simple attribute

3. No thanks, just show me my listing.

Then a final away message "Thanks for creating a centiare listing"

==Input Forms==
OK, I'll take a look at putting together an input form similar to Wikicompany. I don't want to start creating multiple forms since that will just put us right back in the training->learning curve arena. What I'll do is utilize the generic [[Attribute:Common Name]] to capture any name used, whether it's a business, NPO, personal, etc. I'll round out the form to capture some address information and that should be that. The user and/or editor can always come back and clean up and/or flesh out the entry by adding infoboxes, etc. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 21:18, 6 March 2007 (PST)

:Let's 86 the form idea. I don't like it anymore. To much of a possibility for crappy looking pages. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]]

::While I agree the pages won't look too swell, I disagree with nixing the idea. I think the forms will appeal to (hopefully) half of the 70% of our users who seem to be registering and not doing ANYTHING. I know, it's like asking to do a "paint by numbers" portrait of a sailboat when you have an hour's private lesson with Pablo Picasso. But, if we can appeal to more users, that's what we should do.

::I think it will help us to get quantity, and eventually, as the users mature, there will be more careful development of their pages -- either by themselves, or as a result of accepting "offers" to do so by '''MyWikiBiz''' or '''Page Creations''' types of stylists. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 15:07, 8 March 2007 (PST)

:::Admittedly, any form driven input will fall far short of the type of professional looking pages one can render at Centiare simply due to its fixed/static nature. I still thank our lucky stars that we decided, as one of our top priorities, to meet/exceed the capabilities of Wikipedia. This, in essence, means a free-form editing environment.

:::That being said, I've come full circle and now agree with Greg that we should have a simple/fast input capability as well. Even better, it doesn't necessarily have to appeal to business owners. It could work just as well, given the right incentives, where there could be tens/hundreds of young entrepreneurs under Garrett's direction quickly inputting business listings.

:::What's the payoff? How about the inclusion of an optional field where one could enter their Google Adsense account? That way, a quick 7-10 data element (name, address, phone, NAICS, zip, etc) entry could be made along with the originators' Adsense ads. To take it one step further, I could add other additional fields for interests, which then would be linked via aficionados from any Main page articles.

:::IOW, it would incentivize, in the same exact method as the [[Directory:Sylvie De Caluwé|Belgium Bomb]], the rapid build out of content. Except in this case someone could probably add 15+ entries per hour instead of one. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:31, 8 March 2007 (PST)

Help:Water Cooler (assistance)

2008-02-01T06:08:32Z

Nathan: Fixed links - Centiare: -> MyWikiBiz:

<noinclude>
{{WC contents back}}
----
 
{{WaterCoolerPages|Assistance|The '''assistance''' section of the water cooler is used to make requests for assistance with Centiare.

If you have a specific question to ask, you may go to the [[MyWikiBiz:Help desk|Help desk]] instead.}}
</noinclude>

__TOC__

== Question ==
Still not understanding how to create semantic tags outside of an info
box. --[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 10:29, 9 January 2007 (PST)

===Quick answer===
:Just type <pre>[[city:=San Francisco]]</pre> to create the attribute [[city:=San Francisco]] or <pre>[[Subject Interest::Skiing]]</pre> to get the relation [[Subject Interest::Skiing]].

As an added plus, you can add more information to attributes so that they record not only the actual value, but wikilink back to a main or directory page. Example:

<pre>[[city:=San Francisco|[[Directory:San Francisco|The City]]]]</pre>

produces [[city:=San Francisco|[[Directory:San Francisco|The City]]]].

Notice how traditional wikilink pipes work as usual? For more information, you can check [[MyWikiBiz:semantic tagging|this page]] as well. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:49, 9 January 2007 (PST)

===Another Answer===
:You can just "do" them, within the text, inline. For example, if I were to mention [[Directory:Van Doren Oil|Van Doren Oil]], I could also just as easily mention [[Legal_Name:=Van Doren Oil Company|[[Directory:Van Doren Oil|Van Doren Oil Legal Semantics]]]] and sneakily squeeze in a Legal_Name attribute, or mention [[Web:=www.vandorenoil.com|[[Directory:Van Doren Oil|Van Doren Oil Website Semantics]]]] and sneak in a Web attribute.

:Or, you can just create a sematic "field" in an out-of-the-way place at the end of the article, like this:

===Summary===
*Year started -- [[Year_Started:=1939|[[1939]]]]
*Primary NAICS code -- [[NAICS_Code1:=45431]]

Either way, it should automatically create the RDF "lookup table" at the bottom of this page. As an added bonus, this is what starts the Google SEO algorithm a-buzzing. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:57, 9 January 2007 (PST)

== Humble Request for help with Reference Tags ==

I am new to the Wiki/Centiare language and am slowly practicing with my own directory [[Directory:Garreth_Westwood]] so that I can cut my teeth on that before I start adding articles, etc.

I am having problems with two References that I have in my intro paragraph. The References are showing up as (1) Template:Cite Web. What am I doing wrong? :( Thanks, Garreth [[User:Bnagroup|Bnagroup]] 16:40, 8 March 2007 (PST)

:Garreth, I took a quick look and it's just a small edit - nothing major. However, I'm running out the door right now, but [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] is a super wikipedian so I'm sure he can help. I'll give him a ping to see if he's around. If he can't help you right off, I'll go in and clean it up after I return. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:48, 8 March 2007 (PST)

::Thanks, guys. I really appreciate the "collegiality" of Centiare!! [[User:Bnagroup|Bnagroup]] 18:55, 8 March 2007 (PST)

Help:Water Cooler (proposals)

2008-02-01T06:07:40Z

Nathan: Replaced links: Centiare: -> MyWikiBiz:

<noinclude>
{{WC contents back}}
----
 
{{WaterCoolerPages|Proposals|The '''proposals''' section of the water cooler is used to discuss new ideas and proposals that are not policy related (see [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (policy)]] for that).}}
</noinclude>

__TOC__

==Extensions Wanted==

===General===
It sure would be nice to know if Centiare could accomodate the following extensions, which would be amazingly useful for the right kinds of Centiare users:
:*The [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics Google Analytics] embedder, so users could keep track of traffic statistics to their favorite articles. I'm curious if multiple users can code the same article, and also how http://www.centiare.com/skins/common/images/button_bold.png
Bold textit "appears" on the page (if at all).
:*The [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/YouTube YouTube] video embedder. Video would really make Centiare pop. (Don't know if this kills the server space, or not, though.)
These are two that my sister and I thought would be really interesting to offer, but I'm sure there are a half-dozen more that would be just as neat. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 15:20, 10 December 2006 (PST)

:These types of simple extensions are very easy to add. Go ahead and put together a list of others that you would like to see. As for the two above, youTube is ok, but analytics doesn't appear to be [[user:Centiare|working]] - you can check the author's own site as well. Do you have an example where it's working? [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:38, 11 December 2006 (PST)

::No, I don't have any example of the Google Analytics for MediaWiki working anywhere. Just saw it on their list, and went ga-ga, thinking of the opportunity of its use. It looks like [http://www.stoltenow.com/archives/2006/09/adding_google_a.html this post] suggests that you'd have to add it to one of the MediaWiki "skins" to get it to work, but presumably, only within that skin. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:13, 11 December 2006 (PST)

:::That's a modification to the core extension that requires a ''hack'' to the underlying MediaWiki code. You never, ever want to do that. Well, maybe in extreme circumstances where one knows exactly what's happening and controls the output. I've done a few to suit very specific purposes, but they're tested extensively and well documented. You definitely don't want to do something like that for some generic hook extension.

:::I'm going to go ahead and remove the extension+call. If you see it working anywhere, we can go ahead an add it at a later date. In the future, we should probably verify an extension is working before adding to a wish list or installing it (my fault - I assumed you had been using it.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:33, 11 December 2006 (PST)

===wikEd===

Here is the Wiki editor (newer version) that I had installed in Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cacycle/wikEd

Just installed in Centiare and it seems to work as is. Great for wiki lists and tables. Also strips html code.

Wondering if this could be customized to add the script (function)

To create:
<nowiki>
[[Directory:Subject|Subject]]</nowiki>

when Subject is highlighted. --[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 06:16, 22 December 2006 (PST)

:I just added both [[User:Centiare/monobook.js]] and [[User:Centiare/wikEd.js]] and it seems to work nicely - I'm seeing all sorts of interesting edit features as I type this comment. Why don't you go ahead and include wikEd.js to your User page and let me know if it works for you as well

:PS I followed the same procedures trying to get navpop to work, but a quick Google search revealed that no one outside of MWF controlled servers (projects) appeared to be able to get it to work. (It works fine for me at WP when signed in under my account.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:17, 22 December 2006 (PST).

::I went ahead and loaded wikEd.js for both of you - hope you don't mind. Let me know if it looks like it's working ok. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:41, 22 December 2006 (PST)

:::DOH! Now I get what you want. Let me look into it - if it can't be configured via monobook.js, then it would require a hack to the underlying wikEd.js. (Which, incidentally, I went back and removed since it's being externally served for now.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:18, 22 December 2006 (PST)

===Maps===

:Speaking of extensions, which Google maps did you want to include to pinpoint your address from lat/long? The [http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?lat=39.939586787168835&lon=-75.6117832660675&mag=4 Yahoo] map link from MWB looks like it's correctly identifying your address. (The Yahoo map ID is '4', whereas Google is just reading the coords - can you find their option code?) Btw, your pop-up ad appears to interfering with the [[Directory:MyWikiBiz|page rendering]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:08, 11 December 2006 (PST)

::Google Zoom Level is discussed as a "trial and error" right [http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/08/10/google-maps.html?page=2 here]. Was your question meant to say, which (of Map, Satellite, or Hybrid) form of Google Maps did I want to include? Actually, what do you mean "include" -- as in, an actual map rendering in the Infobox? I don't know if we need to go there yet. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:26, 11 December 2006 (PST)

:::Any of them. The link to the Yahoo map shows your location. Of course, we can get the same thing from Google from your address, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the coordinates. As to placement, we can provide links or we can embed (like the youTube extension). [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:37, 11 December 2006 (PST)

===Citation templates===
I would like to see Karl enable the 10 citation templates that are found [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_templates at Wikipedia]. I believe that these 10 should cover any attempt any user should have to factually cite and article or Directory page. I currently updated [[Directory:Gregory J. Kohs]] with a <nowiki>{{cite news}}</nowiki>, but it isn't rendering. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:08, 2 January 2007 (PST)
:Done. Please see [[MyWikiBiz:Citation_templates]] - let me know if there's anything else you need. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 11:32, 2 January 2007 (PST)

===Gadgets and Widget===

Is anyone aware of any MediaWiki extensions to display [http://www.google.com/ig/directory?synd=open Google Gadgets] or [http://www.widgetbox.com/ Widgets]?

Here is a Gadget example at [http://snippets.wikidot.com/code:google-gadgets wikidot.com]

Here is a Widget example at [http://snippets.wikidot.com/code:widgetbox-panel wikidot.com]
--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 09:28, 6 February 2007 (PST)

:You mean like [[Attribute:Extension Name|these]]? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:30, 6 February 2007 (PST)

==Fundamental Questions/Anecdotes/Critiques==
I like this whole centaire thing. The general idea is solid. The businesses, personal pages, and places (BPP) to some extent are all tailor made for "the free directory" I personally believe in the hive mentality to an extent but realize serious restrictions need to be placed so the hive doesn't implode.

===Businesses, Personal pages & Places===
*Everything besides BPP is found on wikipedia with a 5 year headstart and tens of millions of edits. I think a good policy for non-BPP is a brief two/three paragraph summary lifted from the opening section of a wikipedia article and cleaned up/sourced. (i.e. I am a boxer, In the future there will hopefully be thousands of other boxers, there should be a central page).

:Nothing at Wikipedia can be used as a citation reference (at any level), nor can contributions be monetized (other than embedded Amazon links within referenced article citations) by the copyright holder(s). That means there are significant incentives for contributors to re-purpose content in order to enjoy the benefits of their work. Our objective is to allow users to '''Protect & Promote''' their intellectual property.

:You are absolutely correct about personal interests. As I indicated regarding [[surfing]], anyone tagging an activity/subject as a personal interest can be queried from the subject article; boxing would be no different. However, since Main space articles must adhere to [[NPOV]] (which means no link spam, etc), there is little incentive for authors to contribute. The real play is to develop content within protected directory/user space - this is where virtual communities can be created. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 12:33, 1 February 2007 (PST)

::Then why not scrap all but the essentials? Have an article on [[Poker]] because people will have that as a common interest but [[Chip Tricks]] - c'mon that is completely superfluous and ripped from a completely superfluous wiki page. No one can own "chip tricks" or "delaware" or "what have you" creating a fundamental conflict with centiare's purpose. '''However''', Paramount Vantage or Craig Brewster the director could easily own "black snake moan" the new sam jackson flick even though it's obscure and trivial. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 17:33, 2 February 2007 (PST)

:::While we don't want to control what people include in the Main space, we do want to limit the edit wars, link spam, etc. that results from attempting to shoehorn [[NPOV]]. (Like your recent experience at WP regarding the story on Greg & Centiare. LOL) Ultimately, we want the market to decide. That is, if someone wants to market intellectual property, would they create a main space article on [[Chip Tricks]] or [[Magic]]? I think people will learn - the market is a wonderful disciplinarian. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:59, 2 February 2007 (PST)

===Copyright===
*Can you legally display copyrighted images without a fair use tag?
:Copyrighted content needs to be controlled by the copyright holder.

===Web 3.0===
*this site promotes the POV so here I go. You're business model is flawed. The Ads on centiare weaken the overall feel immensely putting the site dangerously close to a geocite/xanga. Instead, go on attack of the show a few more times, get interviewed my a magazine. Once a base of 50,000 (just throwing out a number) members join charge 4.99 for a personal page and 19.99 for a business. You're selling this site, make it cool to have a page. Ipods are no better than roxio players but which one is cool? Exactly. Down the road I see MyWikiBiz:The <s> free </s> Directory

:Monthly billings are so Web1.0 - think Web3.0. That means transactions.

:: Transactions, intriging. I found a guy much smarter than me expounding this on a blog.
::''“I have a dream for the Web [in which computers] become capable of analyzing all the data on the Web – the content, links, and transactions between people and computers. A ‘Semantic Web’, which should make this possible, has yet to emerge, but when it does, the day-to-day mechanisms of trade, bureaucracy and our daily lives will be handled by machines talking to machines. The ‘intelligent agents’ people have touted for ages will finally materialize.”'' - Tim Berners-Lee (Sounds good)

:::TBL is spoken of in hushed tones of reverence around here. We're betting the ranch on the semantic web.

===Google Ads===
Ads are included at the discretion of users; they aren't placed there by Centiare. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:59, 2 February 2007 (PST)

:I still think the ads look cheap. Maybe look into embedding them into the wiki deeper so they feel natural; like they've always been there.

::Maybe so - ultimately, it's the users' choice. If it looks cheap, then perhaps their commercial efforts will be impacted.

===Winners===

*(Again no offense) The internet is littered with the bodies of dead or mentally retarded wikis. The winner (only wikipedia so far) and losers are seperated by a very fine line. Centaire is at a point were it will either exponentially increase or falter and become a blip on archive.org. I don't want to see blipage.

:Neither do we.

===Operating Margins===

*On to the fun stuff - Hard hitting financial questions (not to pry, just help) - Is this for-profit or non-profit? With the ads I'm assuming for profit. Servers are expensive. Hell, one image server can be 20K. Do you have venture capital supporting you? Angel investor or firm? When cash flow dries up everything dries up. At this stage centiare is still so small the servers are probably not too much of a problem but expand a few terabytes and its a different story.

:Actually, bandwidth & servers are incredibly inexpensive. There's a reason the Foundation is running 50% margins.

::Really, I underestimated Sun micro, oracle, the dell/hp/etcs, and Al Gore's ability to make the internet so affordable.

:::When non-profits make money, it's called ''change in net assets''. [[Directory:Wikimedia_Foundation|(See for yourself.)]] So, young grasshopper, let this lesson not be lost on you as you embark upon your business career.

===Centiare===
To conclude. I envision a facebook, wikipedia, business profile hybrid becoming a dominant force of the internet. Dominant = putting the kids through college, and of course a porsche 911 turbo with chrono package. I am an experienced wiki editor with 4 investment experience ranging from unit investment trusts to exchange traded funds (and an IQ of 139). Getting in on the ground floor of something big would be beneficial for my dream of a house in the hills and a trophy wife. I'm here to help. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 15:44, 1 February 2007 (PST)

:Let's talk. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 18:25, 1 February 2007 (PST)
::Let's [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 17:33, 2 February 2007 (PST)
:::Either Greg or I will drop you a line [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:59, 2 February 2007 (PST)

== Fostering faster growth ==

Wikis are a very hot topic in the relatively small world of technologists. The vast majority of small orgnaizations and businesses simply don't have the technical expertise to create a wiki entry, much less take advantage of semantic tagging.

Want to grow faster? Make a dead-simple, fill-in-the-blanks FORM that can be used to generate a page here.

The form could even support for basic semantic relationships.

For example, if I use the form to build a page for a local organization, by simply checking a box I should be able to say "include a link on my page that my MEMBERS can click to build their own pages, and then automatically tag those pages as members of my organization."

In other words, make it EASY to grow virally. Right now your viral growth is limited; too many people and groups are "immune" because they don't have the right techy-gene.

[[User:Wygk|Wygk]] 11:59, 5 March 2007 (PST)

:I like your ideas. What type of improvements would you include/modify on these existing [[MyWikiBiz:Listing/Add|forms]]? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 12:21, 5 March 2007 (PST)

::I will bet 10 to 1 that what [[User:Wygk|Wygk]] was envisioning is something like what they have [http://wikicompany.org/wiki/Special:WCPublish over at Wikicompany.org]. Our "forms" aren't really forms, they are templates. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 13:59, 5 March 2007 (PST)

:::What an ugly site, Centiare has next to no competition because - drum roll - Aesthetics are everything. Look at presidential elections. The taller, better looking candidate wins almost everytime. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 14:19, 5 March 2007 (PST)

:::I clicked around on wikicompany for five minutes and it seems 99% of all companies were made by this "walden" guy not the actual firms. I think we need to extend the olive branch and nicely tell him his unprofessional looking site is futile and centiare is the way to go. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 14:28, 5 March 2007 (PST)

::::Garrett, you know what they say about great minds thinking alike :-/ WikiCompany is poorly organized - the choice of data elements is quite removed from basic hard-copy directories. If you want to approach him, be my guest.

::::Now, while we're quite accomplished at criticizing other sites, what about Centiare? What is lacking that is preventing rapid growth? Is it technical? We have every feature/function as Wikipedia + enhancements. Is it marketing ie just brute force market awareness? Or is it something else more intangible? What are your suggestions? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 16:37, 5 March 2007 (PST)

===Current Events===
I just had an idea that might bring us a good share of traffic, if we had any assurance that Google is spidering the site on a frequent enough basis (or we ping Google manually). What if we tried to pick out some "hot" news stories that are brewing in the Wikipedia, Slashdot, and Digg communities, then write an informative article about the subject, while people are in heavy "search mode" for more information? For example, this whole "Ryan Jordan / Essjay" fiasco at Wikipedia unraveled over the course of about 7 days. How many people during that time were searching for "Ryan Jordan Wikipedia" or "Essjay Wikipedia" during that time? Think if we had an article about it on Centiare, as the story was brewing, we would have gotten a lot of hits? I think so. Next story that I see unfolding on an "obscure" topic that has the potential to "explode", I'll give it a shot. Can't hurt. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 21:23, 5 March 2007 (PST)

:Greg, that's a great idea. I had considered something very similar related to tracking Yahoo's listing of most popular search terms. It would also work well in conjunction with Google's most expensive search terms. The end result would be to link these to directory listings + adsense ads, so they might be perfect for Garrett.

:It sounds like your's would be linked to main space articles. If the news/current events were related to entities/persons, we could also create directory listings (stubs) in which to run aficionados tags. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 07:46, 6 March 2007 (PST)

::Could there be a new type of listing like a "News:Walter Reed Fiasco" or "News:Essjay" with semtags for all the key players? For news stories would only one person be able to edit and monetize or would it be a main space thing with aficionados? [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 15:00, 6 March 2007 (PST)

:::News items should be placed within the Main space with aficionados links back to Directory listings where Adense ads, etc. can be placed. Recall that we allow non-owners to create/control directory listings until the proper owners show up.

:::IOW, you could create a directory listing for WR Hospital and/or Essjay, and link that back from a main space entry (ie the news would have to be an "interest" of the listee). Even better, you could research Google for the most expensive ads, note who was paying for them, create Main space entries covering those topics, and then create directory listing for the payees along with your own Adsense ads, etc. Ditto for Yahoo current events search terms ("Buzz"). [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 15:26, 6 March 2007 (PST)

::::I just think we're going to have to be really smart and really quick to catch something BEFORE it hits the Yahoo Buzz charts. Because no matter how great a page on Anna Nicole Smith we make, it's not likely to get in the Top 10 on Google in the same week. But, if we could nab a meme like Essjay or Antonella Barba at the point where they are just ramping up? That would be the ticket. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:54, 6 March 2007 (PST)

:::::Buzz is probably a little too ambitious right now. It works for WP since they're ranked almost #1 on every search, regardless of topic. Your observation about plotting what will hit big is better suited to where we're at right now. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 21:10, 6 March 2007 (PST)

===Build it and they will come.===
I agree with the proceeding contributions that viral marketing will drive Centiare growth and build an internet powerhouse. Part of what I would like to see Centiare become is something that WP cannot: an online community of clients/members for commercial and advocacy organisations... the author ownership of the Centiare directory page linked to MySpace-type comments/YouTube videos/Blogs could create powerful online communities. I am planning to work in new media (online delivery of news commentary via blogs and video) and believe that Centiare could be the Unified Field Theory of wiki directories, blogs, and video. Nonetheless, what I intend to do in the mean time, is get every line of business in my family company to get a directory and write an article on every issue I have expertise in. We need to build content so that when people discover Centiare, they aren't disappointed with a lack of content. I like the idea of news items to drive traffic; could Centiare expand into the same area as Topix or Newsvine? [[User:Bnagroup|Bnagroup]] 16:25, 8 March 2007 (PST)

:Centiare supports all sorts of [[MyWikiBiz:Extensions|embedded scripts]], including [[Iframe]], which means we can run almost any program from within Centiare. The person who's the real expert in this area is [[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] - take a look [[Directory:Allbritton Communications|here]] to see just one example out of hundreds(?) she's created.

:I have discussed with her the possibility of linking up blogs, auctions (eBay), classified (Craigslist), videos (YouTube), etc. to create a true Web3.0 e-commerce environment at Centiare. Perhaps you would like to touch base with her - the three of us (+ whoever else was interested) could probably pull this project together pretty quickly.

:Btw, it needs to be said, so I guess here's as good as anyplace: collectivist systems like Wikipedia '''''have always failed''''' wherever & whenever they've been tried because they subsume self-interest to the "common good". In comparison, free markets '''''have always succeeded''''' wherever & whenever they've been tried because they elevate self-interest over the "common good".

:The grand irony is that, even though capitalism is inherently selfish, due to productive efficiencies stimulated by self-interest, private property systems always generate more wealth, taxes & public funding. In a Web 3.0 environment, the seemingly novel construct of allowing users to control their own contributions will produce more and better quality information. That is, Centiare will deliver more utility and value to end users. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:16, 8 March 2007 (PST)

::I think ''that'' is the huge potential of MyWikiBiz: the power to unify these extensions; if the owner of a directory page can protect that page from vandalism, it can be used to tie together these web extensions and create a dynamic web-based community. If someone doesn't like the APOV let them set up an counterpoint directory listing--instead of the Wikipedia suppression of dissent. On a side note, as an alumnus of Adam Smith's alma mater, I wouldn't say that Capitalism is inherently "selfish" but is inherently "self-motivated'. I know I am parsing words but selfishness is a sin, Capitalism is not. Capitalism is morally superior to collectivism. But you are right: the paradox is that the common good is better served by the freedom of individuals to achieve their goals. [[User:Bnagroup|Bnagroup]] 18:39, 8 March 2007 (PST)

:::The Directory space, by default, cannot be accessed by any other users except page owners/originators & sysops. Since it is in effect, virtual "private property", owners can utilize their Directory listings/space to engage in all manner of legal activities, including advocacy, e-commerce, etc.

:::The only alternative a competitor or someone with an opposing viewpoint has is to establish a countervailing listing. Main space is reserved for NPOV, which means articles can only state the most fundamental information. Aficionados is the mechanism whereby users can provide links to their listings/contributions for further reading.

:::Allowing readers to decide within a ''marketplace of ideas'' is fundamentally sound and greatly preferable to the mayhem that ensues at WP. It's amazing watching everything Hayek, Orwell & Rand predict come true. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 06:22, 9 March 2007 (PST)

==Revamp the tutorial==
I downloaded an extension called "faststone" which makes taking pictures of your computer screen really easy. I think the tutorial page would be alot more helpful to new users (the 1%) if every step had a captured image to explain exactly what we mean. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 12:40, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

An example

[[Image:Template example.jpg|center|600px]]

:I'll see your screen capture, and raise you one [http://www.download.com/Easy-Screen-Capture-Video/3000-2194_4-10288386.html?tag=lst-0-1 live video capture]. After seeing some stock analyst post technical chart analysis in "video narrated" form on his blog, I knew that's what I have to do, to make Centiare come alive for the inexperienced. I'll be working on this. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 22:32, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

==Facebook & Social Utilities==
Once we have met a threshold of content, how about a Centiare Users group at Facebook. It's amazing how viral it is. [[User:Bnagroup|Bnagroup]] 12:36, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

:I agree, but first we should decide on a title and what to include in the bulk of the group. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 14:00, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

::I have a Facebook account, but I'm not familiar with "Groups" yet. I will look into it and be happy to take charge with the marketing message therein. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:58, 28 April 2007 (PDT)
::'''UPDATE''': I have created a [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2327076196 "Centiare Users" group] within Facebook, and Garrett has already joined. By the way, there is a [http://www.myspace.com/centiare Centiare profile on MySpace], as well. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 22:26, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

==Map embedding extension==
The mapquest gifs i've uploaded are okay but a dynamic embedded map from google or mapquest would be awesome in small business's showing off their location. Any suggestions on how to render a map - I vaguely remember a tourismpedia with a working one a few month ago. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 18:54, 29 April 2007 (PDT)
:I thought there was a widget for this, wasn't there? Check with OMG. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 21:38, 29 April 2007 (PDT)

==Centiare RSS feed==
How would I go about creating a centiare rss feed with maybe 10 articles refreshed daily? [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 18:52, 6 May 2007 (PDT)
:I'll add an extension later today that handles this capability. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 06:49, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
::I looked into some extensions but I'm not sure which one works best - why don't you do a little research and get back to me? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 10:00, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
:::Turns out we can just use the embed command to wrap any existing RSS XML scripts. Check out the [[RSS]] page. You may want to explore a little more about specific extensions that will assist in formatting. For now the feed works great - especially on refresh. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 14:10, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
::::I can't get the centiare rss page to render in my java creator [http://www.rss-info.com/en_rssinclude-simple.html] [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 14:46, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
:::::Looks perfect [[RSS|here]]. Could you add this to the [[MyWikiBiz:Extensions]] list along with a brief write-up & example? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 14:54, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
::::: O - no I was talking about having our own RSS feed, not embedding anothers. I envisioned a [http://rss.centiare.com/rss/featured articles] type situation with the feed refreshing every day with each new article. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 19:30, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
::::::[[RSS|Done]] - just take a look at the code & documentation for further explanation. Would you like to post both of these to the extensions list? Even though you are interested in the outbound RSS, the inbound RSS is perfect for building dynamic content. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 09:58, 8 May 2007 (PDT)
:I'm probably getting in over my head, but does [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&feed=rss this link] help you in any way, Garrett? Maybe merging that with the RSS "external" widget that Karl described?
:Actually, this feed of Centiare's [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=Special:Newpages&feed=rss newest pages] would probably be more interesting. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 11:30, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

I think we have somewhat of an idea of what we're doing but it still renders really weird. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 12:46, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

==Centiare 2.0==
People aren't creating content because they don't know what to do. Squidoo is on to something but they don't allow nearly enough personal freedom plus c'mon how hard is HTML if regular joe's can't tackle metawiki.

Let's say we have a page where you check a box for business, personal, non-profit, or professional creation. Page two check a box for what color you want your page (we can create a <nowiki>{{red}}</nowiki> template really easy) if you want a photo gallery, rss feed, put in your google adsense number, youtube video number then generate a preview with sanford milson's info. Page three is a video how-to that shows them what to do with the pre generated code right underneath

.... or if they click the "professional creation" have page two as my autofill template that e-mails me directly with a price list and ask query of clients. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 13:21, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

:I think scripts, widgets, gadgets, etc represent the easiest methods for users to create content. I've mentioned to Greg that we could add tips & pointers to the 'quick add' form to guide users in building-out meaningful content relevant to their respective directory listings.

::I highly underestimate users inputing scripts and videos unless it is a fill-in-the-form one step process.
:::It may be true that forms will have to incorporate templates.

:The question I posed to you in the context of Lawyer Direct, was what types of scripts exist in the legal biz besides RSS? There is a coming flood of specialized scripts as syndicators realize this is a very effective means of reaching a mass audience. These should be adapted to every type of listing at Centiare.

::I don't quite understand - could you explain further?
:::Script driven widgets, gadgets, etc are quickly moving away from tricks and into the sphere of ''useful''. The Alexa graph (that we couldn't get working) is a good example; I imagine similar scripts exist for different professions & business sectors. In the legal segment, there's RSS from court feeds, etc, but there are probably scripts covering specific professional requirements (eg MCLE).

:What we're faced with then, are constant updates & changes to incorporate the newest tricks. As page counts mount into the thousands, it will become impossible to maintain & move with the market on a manual basis, which is why I'm going to develop a bot library for select use.

::Like that autowikibrowser nazi on wikipedia?
:::There's a whole family of bots - I think I'll design a simple one that select users will be allowed to utilize that will go through each of the pages they choose to modify.

:We've been frozen too long in tight, hand crafted pages. The time has come to not only ramp up content by leveraging external sources, but to be able to quickly adapt to new & interesting technologies & mechanisms. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 14:05, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

::I think we can accomplish this most easily through new templates after we build a better community space that can be like hey... {{this}} gives you a cool script or even better if while editing pages your template box can give you the embed video/ads/etc. code along with žĽĚΏú⅛⅛⅓ type stuff. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 19:05, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
:::Forms & templates may be one method; yet they requirement mediawiki editing skills. I'd like to forge a mechanism by which casual users can quickly create meaningful content without learning how to edit wikipedia style codes. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 03:31, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

==Semantic Forms
I ran accross this new Semantic_Forms extension yesterday. It seems rather complicated to set up, but once it is, it might be the solution for casual users.
[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms Semantic_Forms]
--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 09:04, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

:Excellent - I see Yoran has finally released his forms package. I originally contacted him months ago in reference to some forms he was using at his wiki site. After reviewing his source code, we had numerous email exchanges that ultimately culminated in me convincing him to create a standard forms package and release it as a MW extension. I'll look into see how he's implemented these features. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 10:23, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

===Aesthetic wiki===
I've asked several people for input on what they think of centiare. They all really liked the idea or at least what they understood of it after I explained everything. However every single person immediately said, "O so its wikipedia", or even worse "wikipedia knock off" or "clone" when I pulled up the page. It's time to seriously start thinking about a new skin and overall a new theme. Is there a way we could each create a new main page and one listing in a sandbox and brainstorm a way to differentiate ourselves? (though I'll have to learn more about meta-wiking code)

This could coincide with a hugely revamped and improved new user integration effort with video tutorials. Currently If I was a 45 year old still using the msn search engine small business owner my page would look incredibly basic and would not take advantage of the embed, colors, or even an infobox. Of course the overall change of separating wiki code from the lay user through simple form boxes will hopefully give us a more squidoo like atmosphere yet not forcing ads down people's throats or trashy myspace like html.

I envision creating a centiare page somewhat like customizing your new car on the internet. Pick the color, options, accessories, then see a final preview before buying, if you don't like it just click different boxes.

[[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 09:04, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

This is the most unique wiki I've seen to date. [http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page] I'm not advocating nearly this big of change but it's cool to see what's out there. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 13:50, 13 May 2007 (PDT)

:Garrett, feel free to experiment all you want with the either the main page or the entire skin. You can simply create a main page under any one of your listings. Alternatively, you can perform wholesale changes with your skin. If you like the site you referenced above, just take copy/paste their skin to yours - it's that simple. Or, check out this [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gallery_of_user_styles gallery of user styles] for other ideas.

:If you don't want to muck up your existing skin, you could create a new account for the express purposes of experimenting with various skins. Again, there's nothing Greg or I necessarily have to do to "allow" you to come up with any skin you design. All we have to do if we reach a general agreement is to change the primary default skin. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 06:54, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

::''Consultant Joel Kurtzman, who evaluated 350 startups for his book Startups That Work, found that successful outlets usually have a team of two or three founders who share a common vision; the success rate for this model was a remarkable 50%. The odds for solo founders were more like the oft-quoted one in 10'' - That's pretty good odds. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 17:09, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

::How do I make my own skin for the whole site? The main page and really the whole site have everything placed really well. However all other wiki's (except the super unique wikihow) have the same boring gray background with 1px of darker gray border and green bullet boxes. I'll capture a few net pictures and see if we can code them into centiare. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 17:27, 14 May 2007 (PDT)
<center>
[[Image:Apple tabs.jpg|thumb|700px|these buttons/tabs have an embossed and shadowed look]]

[[Image:Wikihow box.jpg|thumb|700px|probably the easiest aesthetic change to look into as an actual wiki managed to do it.]]

[[Image:Firefox buttons.jpg|thumb|700px|more fancy embossed buttons. Could we make the * symbol into that awesome blue orb?]]
</center>

===Modifying Skins===
We can do anything we like as long as the overall look & feel presents a consistent interface and works with all extensions. Before we change anything, we need to experiment with a single user skin - here are some [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_styles guidelines] to help you out. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 06:28, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Help:Water Cooler (technical)

2008-02-01T06:06:40Z

Nathan: Replaced links: Centiare: -> MyWikiBiz:

<noinclude>
{{WC contents back}}
----
 
{{WaterCoolerPages|Technical|The '''technical''' section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Centiare, including [[MyWikiBiz:Semantic tagging|semantic tagging]].}}
</noinclude>

__TOC__

== Year_started ==

Hi, the starting year of an activity is marked as required - but I don't have that information for many businesses where I have the basic data to be put online. Also many companies here in town would probably like to be in the directory, but for now don't have e-mail and website. How to deal with these? Thanks! --[[User:SabineCretella|SabineCretella]] 03:54, 13 January 2007 (PST)
:In cases where you have allowed for a semantic attribute for which you have no data, you have two simple choices:
:# You can leave the data field blank, and the attribute will not render in the page. (Probably your best choice, if you anticipate that one day you '''will''' have the data, and you'll come back and complete it.)
:# You can remove the attribute altogether. It won't hurt any infobox to remove an attribute element. (Probably a good choice, if you believe that the attribute is irrelevant and/or that you'll never obtain that data point.)
:I hope that this helps answer your question! --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 06:26, 13 January 2007 (PST)

::Sabine is referring to the [[Template:Infobox Company|template]] itself where 'founded' is a required element. As you say, one '''''can still''''' choose whether or not to use a [[MyWikiBiz:Semantic_tagging|semantic attribute]] within any of the templates/infoboxes. In this case, founded is required because potential customers typically want to be able to determine the number of years an entity has been in business. I would suggest that Sabine use a general date if a specific date is not available at this time. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:14, 13 January 2007 (PST)

:::Whoops, I forgot that in some Infoboxes, certain elements are required, or rather, even in their absence of data the field label will still show up. Yes, it seems that either "living with" the empty appearance of the label, or filling in an estimated date, are the only solutions (other than Centiare modifying the template to not require this field). --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 07:44, 13 January 2007 (PST)

::::I reviewed the infobox trying to recall why ''founded'' was a required field. I initially considered changing it to variable, but then remembered that we definitely want a consistent record of the number of years in business for all listed entities. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:07, 13 January 2007 (PST)

== Semantic Categories ==

How would I go about adding "by Category" to the ASK query on [[Directory:KJ Kitchens]]? Thanks---[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 08:23, 19 January 2007 (PST)

:Just add a category filter at the start of the query. In this case, it would look something like this:
<pre>
<ASK Mainlabel="Article" Header="show" Link="all">
[[Category:Soup Recipes]]
[[Page Of::*|Section]]
[[Page Of::<q>[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}]]</q>]]
</ASK>
</pre>

:Since your present recipes are all soups, the query won't change the current ASK results. However, once you add a non-soup recipe, you'll see that the query will only show recipes tagged with the ''soup recipe'' category. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 09:17, 19 January 2007 (PST)

==Moving==
If I gave an article a stupid title is there a "move page" possibility like on wikipedia?

:Just for sysops. We've got the system locked down pretty tight to avoid the type of mayhem being enjoyed at WP. I've got some experience in these types of open boards, so that's why we established the non-disposable email account requirement as well. An ounce of preventation ... [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:55, 3 February 2007 (PST)

==Movie Tags==
OK, here's our movie [[MyWikiBiz:ACR]] workspace - who wants to start? Let's use just a regular bulleted list until we reach some type of consensus. At that point, I'll create the actual tags, provide definitions/usage policy, and run some demo ASK queries. Once we have a basic standard, then anyone else ever creating movie info can follow the same methods. Check out [[Attribute:Movie Title]] - this will serve as a useful reference point. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 16:54, 13 February 2007 (PST)

Some good tags would be
*Director - already have
*Starring
*Producer
*Awards

I don't think movies qualify as "main space" as they are owned unless under pd.

I don't want my minks theater to get buried if a main space "nosferatu" is created. Should I just create a Directory:Xfilm, transfer the info, and call it a day or can I redirect to my pages? [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 17:45, 13 February 2007 (PST)

:You are correct - only public domain IP belongs in the Main space. Otherwise, it should be treated as a property page of the rightful legal owner. That isn't to say that one can't create an IMDB type of application - it just means that it can only use PD images/information.

:Now, if something is rightly classified as PD Main space (PD/MS), there's nothing you or I can do about it - that's what [[NPOV]] is all about. (And, we can't redirect PD/MS to Directory/User pages either - that's cheating and will be reversed.) However, to offer an olive branch towards various warring factions competing over certain subjects, we've got [[MyWikiBiz:Aficionados]].

:In your case, just like [[boxing]], you can tag both a [[Relation:Subject Interest]] & [[Relation:Contributor To]]. In the case of Nosferatu, you could post up a stub in the MS, list your interests as movies, tag your full-on Nosferatu contribution, and you'd have a nice link back to your protected Directory listing(s). [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 11:58, 14 February 2007 (PST)

=== The 50 Pound Sack of Potatoes ===
So, I just got home from the warehouse club where I got a great deal on a 50 pound bag of potatoes. I boot up my computer and go do a Google search for (recipe potatoes ingredient). Coming in number three: KJ Kitchens Famous Cheezy Potato Casserole. OK I take the bait and click the link. "Centiare, what is this new internet site!" So I scroll down the page, looking over the recipe, and I get to the bottom and see "Recipe Ingredient potatoes" with that cute little magnifying glass. Well I have 50 pounds of potatoes to use up so maybe there are more recipes using potatoes. WOW, one click on that magnifying glass and I get a list. A wonderful list. Recipes contributed by:

* Garrett's Grillin' Greats
* Snerfling Does Snacks
* KJ Kitchens
* MyWikiBiz CheezWizBiz

One simple Attribute!!!

OK, I was trying to make a point...

I'm a big fan of CelebrityXYZ. This celebrity wears many hats in the entertainment business.

* Actor
* Director
* Producer
* Screenwriter
* Musician
* Singer

All these would be great Attributes. Now I'm the fan who wants to see all the articles about CelebrityXYZ and I can't remember ALL the Attributes that might apply.

Specific attributes that apply to a single area of Centiare are fine, but I think we also have to have some more general attributes like "Celebrity Name" so that if CelebrityXYZ has an article about directing a movie in one article and in another article they are acting in a movie, a fan (Centiare user) can just query Celebrity Name and get all articles.--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 10:56, 14 February 2007 (PST)

===Can You Handle the Truth?===
OMG, as usual, you're completely correct. More correct than you might think, so I guess it's time to spring a little secret: [[Special:Relations|Relations]] can work both ways ie the [[Relation:Inverse|Inverse]] of each other. For example, [[Relation:Capital Of]] is the inverse of [[Relation:Has Capital]], and vice versa.

So far, we haven't really pursued two-way relations because they can be somewhat redundant. Besides, [[MyWikiBiz:ASK]] queries can be run at the '''''target''''' pages to produce, in effect, a mirror entry. One-way relations work great when we have a pyramid structure roll-ups, like [[Relation:Page Of]] for books @ [[Directory:KJ Kitchens|KJ Kitchens]] or political subdivisions like [[Relation:State Located In]] at [[Directory:California|California]].

For movies however, we have equal weight between people & movies (more of a 'box-like' structure), so we do need two-way relations like ''Actor In'' at an actor's page and ''Has Actor'' at the movie page. If we don't use inverse relations, then one would need to run an ASK query at either location to get all other relations to that page, BUT they would be dependent on all the information being there. Make sense?

So, IMHO, here's what needs to happen: I went through IMDB and listed all the respective info sections they have for both people & movies. Before I go and create a bunch of semantic tags, I need both of you to understand the technical issues (described above) & get on board with their utilization. I've listed them at [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation]] in the same order as they appear at IMDB for us to discuss. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 14:18, 14 February 2007 (PST)

==Simple semantic search==
'''Fact''' - [[Directory:Cher|Cher]] is an American singer, songwriter, actress, and entertainer. Among her many accomplishments in music, television, and film, she has won an Oscar, a Grammy, an Emmy and three Golden Globe Awards.
*''Question 1'' - If I were doing research on Cher, what values would I enter in the Simple semantic search to retrieve ALL the Centiare articles that mention her name? Is this a semantic possibility?
*''Question 2'' - What would a properly formatted info box contain for Cher?
----
 
:Ow, my head hurts - why do you have to ask such hard questions? Why don't we set up a page for Cher and see how it works? We have a basic [[Template:infobox_Person]] and [[Template:infobox_Personal]] (vital stats) for all individuals. You can see an example of the former at [[Directory:Marilyn Monroe]].

:As to entertainment credits, we had thought about creating a stand-alone infobox for celebrities (to be used in conjunction with the two above), but held off until we had determined the proper hooks. This would be a good time to go through the [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation|Entertainment Annotation]] tags and see if they are working in a way that will answer your query.

:If we get that settled, then perhaps we can design/meld some sort of infobox to make the presentation look pretty. Would you like to look around WP a little bit to see what they're using? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 07:54, 17 February 2007 (PST)

::I want to make a suggestion. We really ought to create an Attribute that we call "Common Name". This will have boundless functionality, for dealing with people with legal names like Reginald Dwight, or Reginald Kenneth Dwight, or Sir Elton Hercules John -- we can all agree his "common name" is certainly "Elton John". Same goes for Sandra ("Sandy" to her friends) Annette Bullock -- her "common name" is "Sandra Bullock". Same for the guy born William Jefferson Blythe III -- who has a "common name" of "Bill Clinton". This would solve, in an easy way, the "Cher" dilemma.

::The neat thing, too, is that this goes beyond celebrities. "Ethanoic acid", while an accurate scientific name, is more recognized by the "common name" of "acetic acid". "Sodium chloride" has a "common name" of "salt" or "table salt". A compound of any of 16 different "iron oxides" and "iron hydroxides" has a "common name" of "rust".

::If we got our editors and users accustomed to clarifying anything the least bit ambiguous about their content or their searches of content with this "Common Name" Attribute, we could save everyone a lot of grief searching only for First Names, Last Names, or Scientific Names -- all of which are valid attributes, of course -- if they would just have an easier time searching for "Common Name" Attributes like "Bill Clinton", "Cher", and "rust".

::If there seems to be consensus around this, I'll be happy to get the Attribute started, and fill in at least 10 articles in need of a "Common Name". --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:43, 22 February 2007 (PST)

:::Excellent points. I just created [[Attribute:Common_Name]] & [[Attribute:Scientific_Name]]. You can follow the links to the some of the placeholder data. OMG should be able to search for all information related to [[Directory:Cher]] using this attribute.

:::As far as personal information, we already have [[Template:Infobox Person|Infobox Person]] & [[Template:Infobox Personal|Infobox Personal]] that can handle standard information. We also have [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation|Entertainment Annotation]] to record & report on any specific nominations, awards, categories, etc. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 10:16, 22 February 2007 (PST)

==Book ACR Tags==
Category Suggestions
*Books
*Book Reviews
Attribute and Annotation Suggestions
*Book Title:=The Wisdom of Crowds
*Author Of::James Surowiecki
*Date:=2005
*ISBN:=0385721706
*Publisher Of::First Anchor Books
*Reviewed By:=

:Great list - see book ACRs [[:Category:Books|categorized here]]; note use of relations for authors/publishers. This is similar to [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation|movie actors/producers]] in that ASK queries will x-reference publications-authors-publishers. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 12:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)

==Medical Tags==
OK, here's our medical [[MyWikiBiz:ACR]] workspace. Let's use just a regular bulleted list until we reach some type of consensus. At that point, I'll create the actual tags, provide definitions/usage policy, and run some demo ASK queries. Once we have a basic standard, then anyone else ever creating medical info can follow the same methods. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:31, 13 February 2007 (PST)

==How do our Attributes and Relations stack up?==
Reviewing some of the other largest wikis that [http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Sites_using_Semantic_MediaWiki have deployed] Semantic Mediawiki, I have noticed a somewhat consistent pattern -- several of the largest of these so-called "semantic" wikis are barely utilizing Attributes and Relations.

{| border="1" cellpadding="2"
!width="250"|WIKI
!width="100"|TOTAL PAGES
!width="100"|ATTRIBUTES deployed
!width="100"|RELATIONS deployed
|-
|BibleWiki (Bible) ||align="center"| 178,876 ||align="center"| 2 ||align="center"| 7
|-
|Archiplanet (Architecture) ||align="center"| 121,256 ||align="center"| 22 ||align="center"| 8
|-
|HumanCell (Biology) ||align="center"| 51,233 ||align="center"| 0 ||align="center"| 1
|-
|WikiCompany (Business Directory) ||align="center"| 23,378 ||align="center"| 8 ||align="center"| 22
|-
|Wikible (Bible) ||align="center"| 7,496 ||align="center"| 11 ||align="center"| 30
|-
|OntoWorld (Semantic Web) ||align="center"| 6,450 ||align="center"| 302 ||align="center"| 402
|-
|CaseWiki (Case Western Reserve) ||align="center"| 5,361 ||align="center"| 10 ||align="center"| 25
|-
|'''Centiare (Free Directory)''' ||align="center"| '''4,049''' ||align="center"| '''154''' ||align="center"| '''23'''
|-
|SourceryForge (Occult Knowledge) ||align="center"| 4,024 ||align="center"| 1 ||align="center"| 24
|}

 
As Centiare grows, we should probably keep an eye on not just our number of pages, but on the number of our Attributes and Relations -- not to mention how frequently they're being coded into article pages. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 14:52, 21 February 2007 (PST)

:One reason the other SMW sites don't have as many [[MyWikiBiz:ACR|ACR]] tags is that they are primarily focused on single topics. Another issue to consider is tag proliferation, even at a limited level, which is characterized by under-utilized ACRs. That is, similar tag names are created in an attempt to provide differentiation in lieu of categories, so the actual usage per tag is low. And yet one more thing is many of the ACRs are red-linked ie there aren't any actual page value assigned to the tags.

:The true test of effective use of tags is topic specificity, commonality (within groupings), category differentiation, and actual page values. It's a sure sign things are out of whack if any of these characteristics appear to be out of balance. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:42, 21 February 2007 (PST)

==Friends Relations==
Could we add the profile pick of each friend in with the friends semantic box? It would look cool and classy if we did it right. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 18:57, 5 March 2007 (PST)

:Not sure what you mean. Could you mock up a simple wikitable that illustrates what you'd like the end result to look like? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 07:32, 6 March 2007 (PST)

::Garrett, do you mean "picture" when you say "pick"? That's what I'm guessing. Seems to me, to make that work, the profile picture would have to be tagged in some uniform fashion AND the MediaWiki software would have to be able to render images in ASK tables. Sounds challenging. Might be something for an "eventual To Do" list. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 07:49, 6 March 2007 (PST)

:::Exactly what I was going for; but a million other things need to happen first.

:::I say create a Directory:Centiare/Goals and write short, medium, and long term goals for we what to accomplish with centiare. Writing goals down helps to materialize them better. Stupid Oprah - I should really find something to do after Jeopardy. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 08:33, 6 March 2007 (PST)

::::Regardless of the time frame, the goal is the same: increase members & contributions (main space + directory listings). So the question then becomes "what is the best way to accomplish this?" It appears the conclusion boils down to ''brute force marketing'' (BFM).

::::While BFM comes in many flavors, its essential objective is to increase '''market awareness'''. The techniques listed so far include YouTube stunts, sincere letter writing campaigns, and Google search references. Are there any others that we haven't considered? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 08:46, 6 March 2007 (PST)

:::::There are lots of other ways to market Centiare. Create a blog. Write current "hot" news stories to draw in searchers. Post sincere comments on other blogs and message boards. Create a MySpace page (already done -- it's not generating any heat). Convince popular bloggers to write a story about us (you know, that damn Pandia article is one of our top inbound feeds). Convince popular journalists to write a story about us. Set up LiteBrite sets in metro areas -- er, scratch that. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:50, 6 March 2007 (PST)

==Extensions==
Centiare supports a full range of [[MyWikiBiz:Extensions|audio, video, widget, social bookmarking]], etc extensions that can be included within Directory listings. Here's a brief list and one in action:

<ASK format="ul">
[[Page Of::<q>[[MyWikiBiz:Extensions]]</q>]]
</ASK>

<sharethis />

==Spam filter blocks my amazon associates==
This is a bit irksome, could you please unspam amazon. I'm having trouble displaying the problem as the filter keeps blocking me. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 22:06, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
:Okay, this is getting a bit weird. I reported the same problem to the Grand Poobah a couple of days ago, and he said, "Errr, it seems to work for me." So I tried again, and I did NOT get the threatening "spam link blocked" message. It worked (Liz Cohen page). I would just "try again", Garrett, and if it still doesn't work, hopefully Karl will look into this a bit more. Maybe we could/should contact Amazon -- surely they had enough Mediawiki wikis linking to them before, to have seen a problem ticket at some point. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 05:56, 6 April 2007 (PDT)

==Centiare doesn't support kanoodle advertising==

They give me this piece of adcode here

<SCRIPT language="JavaScript1.1" type="text/javascript" src="http://context5.kanoodle.com/cgi-bin/ctpub_adserv.cgi?id=88333764&site_id=88333765&format=pu600x400b&bdcl=cccccc&bgcl=ffffff&tlcl=000000&ttcl=494949&ulcl=929292"></SCRIPT>

I've surrounded it with both <nowiki><embed></nowiki> and <nowiki><adsense></nowiki> but to no avail. Could you create a new <kanoodle></kanoodle> extension like you did for adsense?

==Infobox width==
Could we decide on a universal vertical infobox width. My sharethis box can only look right on either the personal or business but not both
{{Sharethis}}
[[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 17:29, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

:I don't have any particular opinion; does it need to be standardized? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 20:42, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

::I'd like to have my sharethis box and any other supplemental box the same width so it looks nice throughout the site if I put it above or below the box - maybe a 20em?

[[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 06:56, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

==Heads Up==
This is just a heads up but if you want infoboxes to render properly for internet explorer within html colors create one infobox for all the boxes you want to include and

<nowiki>
{| align=right
|-
|

|}
</nowiki>

the whole thing

[[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 14:03, 28 April 2007 (PDT)
:Is this per what you did with Stetson Hats? That looks flashy and nice, for a consumer product! --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:00, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

::I just wanted 7% off my prom fedora so I created the article in like 20 minutes :)! [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 22:26, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

==LaTeX==

JA: The LaTeX module does not appear to be loaded. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 05:14, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

:You are correct. I briefly looked into months ago, but since we didn't have anybody using the <nowiki><math></nowiki> function, I sort of put it on the back-burner. Do you know whether or not specific PHP modules have to be loaded (that aren't part of the std release), or is it something specific to the parser function that can easily be configured? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 06:58, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

::JA: No, that's all I know about it. I've pretty much exceeded my teΧnical abilities just trying to spell "LaTeΧ". [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 07:10, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

:::Math has been installed and is working properly. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 19:52, 3 June 2007 (PDT)

::::Additional math rendering capabilities have been enabled. See [[Help:Displaying a formula]] for more information. Example:
<pre><math>\sqrt{a^2+b^2}</math> produces</pre>
<math>\sqrt{a^2+b^2}</math>

::::Along with the new math functions, hieroglyphics have also been enabled. You can refer to the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:WikiHiero_syntax meta] to get a complete list of images. Example:
<pre><hiero>A1</hiero> produces</pre>
<hiero>A1</hiero>
[[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 06:56, 6 June 2007 (PDT)

==SubPage Titles==
The '''<nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE:xxx}}</nowiki>''' magic word has been enabled along with a minor hack of the MediaWiki display module. Used in conjunction with MW's built-in sub-page navigational "breadcrumb" feature, this magic word helps render a cleaner page look and eliminates ''directory path creep''.

For an example of this capability, take a look [[Directory:Sarbanes-Oxley/Mgi_Pharma_Inc|here]]. Please note that with this function, wikilinks need to be referenced from URLs as page titles can now be rendering separately from actual page names. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 19:52, 3 June 2007 (PDT)

==Link Search==
The WP special page that displayed external links was recently released as a MediaWiki extension and has now been [[Special:Linksearch|installed]]. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 15:49, 5 June 2007 (PDT)

== Source code tagging ==

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I was wondering if there are any tags available on Centiare which convert text to the style encountered in a computer compiler such as found [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Derktar/sandbox here at this link]. The tags that are used to do this on Wikipedia are: <nowiki><source lang = "cpp"></source></nowiki> and converts from standard writing text to the text found in a C++ or Java compiler such as Visual Studio which highlights different aspects in different colors. Any help in this matter is appreciated thanks, [[User:Derek Elder|Derek Elder]] 20:05, 9 October 2007 (PDT).

Help:Water Cooler (policy)

2008-02-01T06:05:07Z

Nathan: Changed links from Centiare: to MyWikiBiz:

<noinclude>
{{WC contents back}}
----
 
{{WaterCoolerPages|Policy Discussion|The '''policy''' section of the water cooler is used to discuss existing and proposed policies and guidelines. If you want to propose something new, use the ''[[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (proposals)|proposals]]'' section. }}
</noinclude>

__TOC__

==Legal notes==

Note that persons within Directory listings using infobox_person should provide contact & reference information. That because even if they're dead, by definition, if they're within the Directory namespace, that means they have commercial value; ergo there should be contact info + reference information.

For example, [[Directory:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] has a link to his estate that generates licensing revenue from his name/works/image. OTOH, Newton is public domain, so he shouldn't be listed under Directory - rather, he should be included within Main page articles.

I guess we (interested?) could create another infobox_person for Main page entries - ie no longer any commercial rights. There's a lot of stuff in infobox_person that could be cleaned up/removed to create a new version for non-commercial public figures. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 12:30, 3 December 2006 (PST)

==Spiders don't like stubs==

I have been reading a number of Google policy pages and various SEO blog posts, and they all seem to agree on something: Spider/bot readers that index web sites will deprecate the entire site if they find a lot of "empty" pages, pages with very little information, pages with substantially similar content, and pages with no outbound links. It's been a common habit here on Centiare to plug in short stubs that might only mirror the title of the article, as in the cases of [[March 9]] and [[February 11]]. Apparently, for search engine optimization, we're not doing ourselves any favors by doing this sort of thing with red-linked pages. It is so much better (I gather) if we take the time to make pages more like [[March 10]]. So, may I call for two things from readers of this posting?
:# '''Stop it'''. Refrain from making pithy little stubs when you find yourself making a wiki-linked page.
:# '''Fix it'''. Hit "Random article" in the left sidebar 10 times, and when an "empty" page comes up (usually, they are Main Space pages), add some meaningful content to it. Wikipedia is fair game to copy, because our Main Space is also released under GFDL.
Thanks for considering this! --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 15:13, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

:I concur, MediaWiki made this [[Special:Deadendpages|page]] special for a reason. A red link or no link is better than a dead-end link.--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 16:59, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

::I'm wondering if we should add [[Attribute:date|date]] tags within articles that reference dates and then run ASK queries from the date entry side. Most of the pages displayed in the dead-end report have links ''to them''; it's the outbound links that are missing. Rather than manually create links back out, ASK is great for automating this task if the respective inbound pages have been appropriately tagged. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:24, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

:::Date listings like [[December 20]] are hard-coded, so it's a real problem trying to add tags at the ''report level''. That is, each of the events, and person births & deaths should have respective date tags at the '''''source level'''''.

:::Then, one could merely run an ASK by year to get detailed days, or run an ASK by day to get the respective years. This would solve a lot of dead end page problems, and begin to address some of the WP hard-coding problems. I'm wondering if a bot could be written to automate this task, or outsource it to India. (Or just leave it alone for now.) [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:42, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

Template:WC contents back

2008-02-01T06:04:17Z

Nathan: Fixed link.

{| style="background:transparent"
| {{click|image=1leftarrow.png|link=MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler|width=16px|height=16px}}
| <big>[[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler|Water Cooler]]</big>
|}

Help:Water Cooler (news)

2008-02-01T06:03:07Z

Nathan: Changed all links from Centiare: to MyWikiBiz:

<noinclude>
{{WC contents back}}
----
 
{{WaterCoolerPages|News|The '''news''' section of the water cooler is used for news or updates that are expected to require public discussion, rather than, say, specific actions, or discussion on their own talk pages. Centiare milestones should be posted at [[MyWikiBiz:Announcements]]; all other news should go to [[MyWikiBiz:Community Portal#Community bulletin board|the community bulletin board]].}}
</noinclude>

__TOC__

== ERB Notification ==

An [[MyWikiBiz:ERB|Editorial Review Board]] policy that explains how copyright protections are provided to contributing authors, along with Centiare's semantic promotional capabilities, has been posted [[MyWikiBiz:ERB|here]]. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:39, 18 January 2007 (PST)

==Entity Relational Tags==
The entity (government) relational (rollup) tags are ready for use. (Since there'll always be additions & modifications, I won't say ''finished''.) If you start at the [[Directory:United States|United States]], you can drill down into the respective states, counties, cities, districts (school, sanitation, etc), organizations (little league, etc), departments (state fish & game), etc.

Note also the attribute names for each entity, along with the different categories. The use of modular names for relations, attributes & categories provides, in essence, a 3x3 matrix. This means one can ask very powerful, and highly granular, queries to get detailed & linked results.

I will be writing up a technical overview explaining how these tags work, but I figured people might be interested in using them immediately. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 12:31, 19 January 2007 (PST)

== Greg's Interview ==

In case anyone missed it, Greg was interviewed by the [[Directory:Associated Press|Associated Press]] regarding his views about [[Directory:Microsoft|Microsoft]] and paid editing at [[Directory:Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. Follow the link [[MyWikiBiz:Reviews|here]] to read the full story. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:58, 24 January 2007 (PST)

== Greg's appearance on G4 television ==
Centiare's co-developer will be making his first national TV appearance -- LIVE -- Thursday night, January 25th. He will be on ''Attack of the Show'' at approximately 7:10 PM Eastern. This is broadcast on the G4 network -- proudly ranking # 57 out of the 64 major basic cable networks.

'''Satellite'''
DirecTV Channel 354
Dish Network Channel 191 or 515

'''Cable'''
Verizon FiOS Channel 320
Comcast Channel 136
Click! Channel 163
Time Warner Cable Channel 105
Cablevision Channel 175

I hope you'll join me by watching! We'll be discussing the various problems associated with commercial participation within Wikipedia.
(I hope to plug Centiare.com about 5 or 6 times, too.)

For more about G4, there's always...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_%28TV_channel%29 Wikipedia's article about G4].

--[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 05:30, 25 January 2007 (PST)

:::To watch a YouTube clip of the appearance right now, go [[MyWikiBiz:Reviews/Can_Wikipedia_be_Trusted|here]]. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 11:02, 29 January 2007 (PST)

== Front page news? ==

Personally, I think this should go on Centiare's front page for at least a couple of weeks. We need to show our visitors that they are on a site that's '''''already''''' getting page views that are competitive with other major business, news, and academic sites. Our users need to '''tell their friends''' about Centiare, to keep our traffic figure moving up, which will only help their own content get more attention. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:08, 28 January 2007 (PST) [[Image:Centiare_traffic_Jan21-27.jpg|thumb|left|800px|Recent Centiare traffic stats, versus the Chronicle of Higher Education, the Small Business Administration, the Baltimore Sun, and Dun & Bradstreet]]

==Embed==
In case anyone is interested, there's a new parser function called '''<nowiki><embed></nowiki>''' that has been enabled that allows for a greater range of external applications to be run within Centiare. You can read more about it [[MyWikiBiz:Extensions|here]]. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 03:09, 13 February 2007 (PST)

==Squidoo==
I don't know if this is really news per say but I've done some investigation into squidoo and it looks to be ~20-30% similar to centiare in functionality but doesn't really target small business's or individuals. It seems a little like digg actually with user created internet tidbits.

Having a decently similar nature I plugged the site into alexa and found [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.squidoo.com%2F this]. The 804th most popular site on the web! What I want to know is how they jumped from 50,000 to 1,500 in one day back in late 2005 and how we can do the same. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 20:24, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

:I'm the last guy to ask about web traffic stats - I just stick to the tech stuff. Greg, on the other hand, has become quite the expert. I'd be interested to hear his perspective. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 20:38, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

::And I'm apparently the last guy at the Water Cooler to see that questions are being directed to me. Sorry. Squidoo's meteoric climb is likely explained by the fact that it's owned/operated by [[Directory:Seth Godin|Seth Godin]], who was already an Internet guru ("permission marketing") with a huge following. On December 8th, 2005, he blogged to his audience only the words "It's ready" and the link to Squidoo. The rest is history. Helps to be famous and THEN launch a website. Though, it certainly hasn't worked for Jimbo Wales and Openserving.com, has it? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 15:17, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

==Dynamic Content==
Everyone should take the chance to review some of the [[Directory:Miniclip|new directory listings]] that have been added for gadget/widget developers. These listings include not only the firms, but also profile some of the gadgets/widgets they've made available at Google, Widgetbox, etc. I believe these types of scripts & extensions are the easiest & most effective way to add dynamic, useful & compelling content to Centiare.

While it is true that Web sites do not benefit from the number of links associated with any particular widget/gadget (ie if 5,000 copies are downloaded, Google does not count 5,000 links), the directory listing itself is still picked up in reference to its semantic tag and ''any external links'' bookmarked as a result of users wanting to re-visit the Centiare listing to read and/or use the information. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:07, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

==System Upgrade==
Centiare is now '''[[Special:Version|live]]''' with Mediawiki 1.10 and SemanticMediawiki 0.7! This is a major upgrade with a significant structural changes to both program files and database tables. It will be interesting to see how many other wikis are able to make the transition. Two points of interest:
# If you're using FireFox, you may need to clear your cache to have the newest javascript factboxes and ASK query reports render properly. To clear, just click on the Tools tab, then 'Clear Private Data';
# ASK can now "[[Attribute:Address|page]]" through additional results past any initial limit. (System default is 50, but it can be set lower - see [[Help:Inline queries|documentation]]). However, in order to see additional results, the page variable has to be '''explicitly set'''. That is, while we can still use attribute:=<nowiki>{{PAGENAME}}</nowiki>, where pagename=address, for single page results, any secondary listings need actual hard-coded references eg attribute:=address, etc.

Let me know what you think of the system, including any performance improvements (or degradations), semantic features, ASK, etc. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:51, 28 May 2007 (PDT)

Help:Water Cooler (news)

2008-02-01T06:00:13Z

Nathan: /* Greg's Interview */ fixed link

<noinclude>
{{WC contents back}}
----
 
{{WaterCoolerPages|News|The '''news''' section of the water cooler is used for news or updates that are expected to require public discussion, rather than, say, specific actions, or discussion on their own talk pages. Centiare milestones should be posted at [[Centiare:Announcements]]; all other news should go to [[Centiare:Community Portal#Community bulletin board|the community bulletin board]].}}
</noinclude>

__TOC__

== ERB Notification ==

An [[Centiare:ERB|Editorial Review Board]] policy that explains how copyright protections are provided to contributing authors, along with Centiare's semantic promotional capabilities, has been posted [[Centiare:ERB|here]]. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:39, 18 January 2007 (PST)

==Entity Relational Tags==
The entity (government) relational (rollup) tags are ready for use. (Since there'll always be additions & modifications, I won't say ''finished''.) If you start at the [[Directory:United States|United States]], you can drill down into the respective states, counties, cities, districts (school, sanitation, etc), organizations (little league, etc), departments (state fish & game), etc.

Note also the attribute names for each entity, along with the different categories. The use of modular names for relations, attributes & categories provides, in essence, a 3x3 matrix. This means one can ask very powerful, and highly granular, queries to get detailed & linked results.

I will be writing up a technical overview explaining how these tags work, but I figured people might be interested in using them immediately. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 12:31, 19 January 2007 (PST)

== Greg's Interview ==

In case anyone missed it, Greg was interviewed by the [[Directory:Associated Press|Associated Press]] regarding his views about [[Directory:Microsoft|Microsoft]] and paid editing at [[Directory:Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. Follow the link [[MyWikiBiz:Reviews|here]] to read the full story. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:58, 24 January 2007 (PST)

== Greg's appearance on G4 television ==
Centiare's co-developer will be making his first national TV appearance -- LIVE -- Thursday night, January 25th. He will be on ''Attack of the Show'' at approximately 7:10 PM Eastern. This is broadcast on the G4 network -- proudly ranking # 57 out of the 64 major basic cable networks.

'''Satellite'''
DirecTV Channel 354
Dish Network Channel 191 or 515

'''Cable'''
Verizon FiOS Channel 320
Comcast Channel 136
Click! Channel 163
Time Warner Cable Channel 105
Cablevision Channel 175

I hope you'll join me by watching! We'll be discussing the various problems associated with commercial participation within Wikipedia.
(I hope to plug Centiare.com about 5 or 6 times, too.)

For more about G4, there's always...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_%28TV_channel%29 Wikipedia's article about G4].

--[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 05:30, 25 January 2007 (PST)

:::To watch a YouTube clip of the appearance right now, go [[Centiare:Reviews/Can_Wikipedia_be_Trusted|here]]. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 11:02, 29 January 2007 (PST)

== Front page news? ==

Personally, I think this should go on Centiare's front page for at least a couple of weeks. We need to show our visitors that they are on a site that's '''''already''''' getting page views that are competitive with other major business, news, and academic sites. Our users need to '''tell their friends''' about Centiare, to keep our traffic figure moving up, which will only help their own content get more attention. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:08, 28 January 2007 (PST) [[Image:Centiare_traffic_Jan21-27.jpg|thumb|left|800px|Recent Centiare traffic stats, versus the Chronicle of Higher Education, the Small Business Administration, the Baltimore Sun, and Dun & Bradstreet]]

==Embed==
In case anyone is interested, there's a new parser function called '''<nowiki><embed></nowiki>''' that has been enabled that allows for a greater range of external applications to be run within Centiare. You can read more about it [[Centiare:Extensions|here]]. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 03:09, 13 February 2007 (PST)

==Squidoo==
I don't know if this is really news per say but I've done some investigation into squidoo and it looks to be ~20-30% similar to centiare in functionality but doesn't really target small business's or individuals. It seems a little like digg actually with user created internet tidbits.

Having a decently similar nature I plugged the site into alexa and found [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.squidoo.com%2F this]. The 804th most popular site on the web! What I want to know is how they jumped from 50,000 to 1,500 in one day back in late 2005 and how we can do the same. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]] 20:24, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

:I'm the last guy to ask about web traffic stats - I just stick to the tech stuff. Greg, on the other hand, has become quite the expert. I'd be interested to hear his perspective. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 20:38, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

::And I'm apparently the last guy at the Water Cooler to see that questions are being directed to me. Sorry. Squidoo's meteoric climb is likely explained by the fact that it's owned/operated by [[Directory:Seth Godin|Seth Godin]], who was already an Internet guru ("permission marketing") with a huge following. On December 8th, 2005, he blogged to his audience only the words "It's ready" and the link to Squidoo. The rest is history. Helps to be famous and THEN launch a website. Though, it certainly hasn't worked for Jimbo Wales and Openserving.com, has it? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 15:17, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

==Dynamic Content==
Everyone should take the chance to review some of the [[Directory:Miniclip|new directory listings]] that have been added for gadget/widget developers. These listings include not only the firms, but also profile some of the gadgets/widgets they've made available at Google, Widgetbox, etc. I believe these types of scripts & extensions are the easiest & most effective way to add dynamic, useful & compelling content to Centiare.

While it is true that Web sites do not benefit from the number of links associated with any particular widget/gadget (ie if 5,000 copies are downloaded, Google does not count 5,000 links), the directory listing itself is still picked up in reference to its semantic tag and ''any external links'' bookmarked as a result of users wanting to re-visit the Centiare listing to read and/or use the information. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:07, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

==System Upgrade==
Centiare is now '''[[Special:Version|live]]''' with Mediawiki 1.10 and SemanticMediawiki 0.7! This is a major upgrade with a significant structural changes to both program files and database tables. It will be interesting to see how many other wikis are able to make the transition. Two points of interest:
# If you're using FireFox, you may need to clear your cache to have the newest javascript factboxes and ASK query reports render properly. To clear, just click on the Tools tab, then 'Clear Private Data';
# ASK can now "[[Attribute:Address|page]]" through additional results past any initial limit. (System default is 50, but it can be set lower - see [[Help:Inline queries|documentation]]). However, in order to see additional results, the page variable has to be '''explicitly set'''. That is, while we can still use attribute:=<nowiki>{{PAGENAME}}</nowiki>, where pagename=address, for single page results, any secondary listings need actual hard-coded references eg attribute:=address, etc.

Let me know what you think of the system, including any performance improvements (or degradations), semantic features, ASK, etc. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:51, 28 May 2007 (PDT)

Buzz Factor

2008-01-31T22:49:52Z

Nathan: update from centiare to mywikibiz

'''{{PAGENAME}}''' or '''Buzz''' is a term referring to the degree of news and public notice devoted to a celebrity.
<embed>

<form method="get" action="http://www.google.com/custom" target="google_window">
<table border="0" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<tr><td nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" align="left" height="32">
<a href="http://www.google.com/">
<img src="http://www.google.com/logos/Logo_25wht.gif" border="0" alt="Google" align="middle"></img></a>
</td>
<td nowrap="nowrap">
<input type="hidden" name="domains" value="www.mywikibiz.com"></input>
<label for="sbi" style="display: none">Enter your search terms</label>
<input type="text" name="q" size="31" maxlength="255" value="" id="sbi"></input>
<label for="sbb" style="display: none">Submit search form</label>
<input type="submit" name="sa" value="Search" id="sbb"></input>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> </td>
<td nowrap="nowrap">
<table>
<tr>
<td>
<input type="radio" name="sitesearch" value="" checked id="ss0"></input>
<label for="ss0" title="Search the Web">Web</label></td>
<td>
<input type="radio" name="sitesearch" value="www.mywikibiz.com" id="ss1"></input>
<label for="ss1" title="Search www.mywikibiz.com">www.mywikibiz.com</label></td>
</tr>
</table>
<input type="hidden" name="client" value="pub-5512298628457000"></input>
<input type="hidden" name="forid" value="1"></input>
<input type="hidden" name="ie" value="UTF-8"></input>
<input type="hidden" name="oe" value="UTF-8"></input>
<input type="hidden" name="cof" value="GALT:#008000;GL:1;DIV:#336699;VLC:663399;AH:center;BGC:FFFFFF;LBGC:336699;ALC:0000FF;LC:0000FF;T:000000;GFNT:0000FF;GIMP:0000FF;LH:86;LW:90;L:http://www.mywikibiz.com/skins/common/images/MyWikiBizLogo135fx.gif;S:http://;LP:1;FORID:1"></input>
<input type="hidden" name="hl" value="en"></input>
</td></tr></table>
</form>

</embed>
[[Special:Random|I'm Feeling Lucky]]
<embed>

<script type="text/javascript" language="javascript">
var sc_project=2346618;
var sc_invisible=0;
var sc_partition=21;
var sc_security="548ebbe1";
var sc_text=1;
</script>

<script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" src="http://www.statcounter.com/counter/frames.js"></script><noscript><a href="http://www.statcounter.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://c22.statcounter.com/counter.php?sc_project=2346618&java=0&security=548ebbe1&invisible=0" alt="free website hit counter" border="0"></a> </noscript>

</embed>

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2008-01-30T21:50:56Z

Nathan:

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[User:Gazora|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[Directory:Nathan Richards|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Community Services Coordinator]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example. We also have an IRC server at ''irc.xytra.net''.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].

==External links==
* '''Alexa''': [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=xytra.net Xytra.net]
* [http://whois.domaintools.com/xytra.net WHOIS for Xytra.net]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />
__NOTOC__

User:Nathan

2008-01-30T21:49:46Z

Nathan:

The owner of this account is [[Directory:Nathan Richards|Nathan Richards]].

==External links==
'''{{FULLPAGENAME}}''' is the page "owner" of
[[Page Owner Of::Directory:Xytra Internet Services]] and [[Page Owner Of::Directory:Nathan Richards]].

==Internal links==
Subject Interests: [[Subject Interest::Category:Wikipedia]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia scandals]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia Vandalism]]

Directory:Nathan Richards

2008-01-30T21:48:47Z

Nathan:

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
{|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%"
|
{{Infobox_Person
| name = [[Person_First_Name:=Nathan]] [[Person_Last_Name:=Richards]]
| other_names = ''[[Nickname:=Nathan, nathanr, nathanrdotca]]''
| residence = [[City:=Ottawa|[[Directory:Ottawa, Ontario|Ottawa]]]], [[State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| image =
| imagesize = 175px
| caption =
| birth_date = [[Birth Date:=1976-07-03|[[1976-07-03]]]]
| birth_place = [[Birth_City:=Toronto|[[Directory:Toronto, Ontario|Toronto]]]], [[Birth_State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Birth_Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| birth_name =
| death_date =
| death_place =
| death_cause =
| occupation = [[NAICS/51811|Community Services Coordinator]]
| known =
| contact = [[Email:=http://nathanr.ca/contact|[http://nathanr.ca/contact Email]]] [[Blog:=nathanr|ca|[http://nathanr.ca Blog (nathanr|ca)]]]
| reference = [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.417|45°25′1.2″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.7|75°42'W]] 
}}

I'm the Community Services Coordinator for [[Directory:Xytra Internet Services|Xytra Internet Services]] and have been since 2005.

{{Infobox_Personal
| physical = [[Person_Race:=White]] [[Person_Gender:=Male]], [[Person_Height:=70]] inches, [[Person_Weight:=180]] pounds, [[Person_Hair:=Brown]] Hair, [[Person_Eyes:=Blue]] Eyes
| profession = Director of Technical Services
| credential =
| member =
| party = [[Political_Party:=New Democratic Party|[[Directory:New Democratic Party|New Democratic Party]]]]
| religion =
| marital = [[Marital_Status:=Single]]
| children = [[Number_Children:=0]]
| relations =
| friends =
| interests = [[Subject_Interest::Movies]], [[Subject_Interest::Music]], [[Subject_Interest::Sociology]], [[Subject_Interest::Travel]]
}}

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.417|-75.7}}

<embed>
<script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=&up_loc=Ottawa%2C%20Ontario%2C%20Canada&up_zoom=Region&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC&output=js"></script>
</embed>

<adsense>
google_ad_client = 'ca-pub-9146030392150029';
google_ad_width = 468;
google_ad_height = 60;
google_ad_format = '468x60_as';
google_ad_type = 'text_image';//2006-12-28: Centiare Directory space
google_ad_channel = '2388332058';
google_color_border = '6699CC';
google_color_bg = '003366';
google_color_link = 'FFFFFF';
google_color_text = 'AECCEB';
google_color_url = 'AECCEB';
</adsense>
|}

Directory:Nathan Richards

2008-01-30T21:48:10Z

Nathan: New page: __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ {|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%" | {{In...

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
{|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%"
|
{{Infobox_Person
| name = [[Person_First_Name:=Nathan]] [[Person_Last_Name:=Richards]]
| other_names = ''[[Nickname:=Nathan, nathanr, nathanrdotca]]''
| residence = [[City:=Ottawa|[[Directory:Ottawa, Ontario|Ottawa]]]], [[State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| image =
| imagesize = 175px
| caption =
| birth_date = [[Birth Date:=1976-07-03|[[1976-07-03]]]]
| birth_place = [[Birth_City:=Toronto|[[Directory:Toronto, Ontario|Toronto]]]], [[Birth_State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Birth_Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| birth_name =
| death_date =
| death_place =
| death_cause =
| occupation = [[NAICS/51811|Community Services Coordinator]]
| known =
| contact = [[Email:=http://nathanr.ca/contact|[http://nathanr.ca/contact Email]]] [[Blog:=nathanr|ca|[http://nathanr.ca Blog (nathanr|ca)]]]
| reference = [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.417|45°25′1.2″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.7|75°42'W]] 
}}

I'm the Community Services Coordinator for [[Directory:Xytra Internet Services|Xytra Internet Services]] and have been since 2005.

{{Infobox_Personal
| physical = [[Person_Race:=White]] [[Person_Gender:=Male]], [[Person_Height:=70]] inches, [[Person_Weight:=180]] pounds, [[Person_Hair:=Brown]] Hair, [[Person_Eyes:=Blue]] Eyes
| profession = Director of Technical Services
| credential =
| member =
| party = [[Political_Party:=New Democratic Party|[[Directory:New Democratic Party|New Democratic Party]]]]
| religion =
| marital = [[Marital_Status:=Single]]
| children = [[Number_Children:=0]]
| relations =
| friends =
| interests = [[Subject_Interest::Movies]], [[Subject_Interest::Music]], [[Subject_Interest::Sociology]], [[Subject_Interest::Travel]]
}}

==External links==
'''{{FULLPAGENAME}}''' is the page "owner" of
[[Page Owner Of::Directory:Xytra Internet Services]]

==Internal links==
Subject Interests: [[Subject Interest::Category:Wikipedia]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia scandals]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia Vandalism]]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.417|-75.7}}

<embed>
<script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=&up_loc=Ottawa%2C%20Ontario%2C%20Canada&up_zoom=Region&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC&output=js"></script>
</embed>

<adsense>
google_ad_client = 'ca-pub-9146030392150029';
google_ad_width = 468;
google_ad_height = 60;
google_ad_format = '468x60_as';
google_ad_type = 'text_image';//2006-12-28: Centiare Directory space
google_ad_channel = '2388332058';
google_color_border = '6699CC';
google_color_bg = '003366';
google_color_link = 'FFFFFF';
google_color_text = 'AECCEB';
google_color_url = 'AECCEB';
</adsense>
|}

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-09-12T04:08:57Z

Nathan: Update, remove xblogs as it's an unqualified failure.

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[User:Gazora|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Community Services Coordinator]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example. We also have an IRC server at ''irc.xytra.net''.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].

==External links==
* '''Alexa''': [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=xytra.net Xytra.net]
* [http://whois.domaintools.com/xytra.net WHOIS for Xytra.net]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />
__NOTOC__

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-06-05T04:19:09Z

Nathan: Change title and some minor fixes.

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[User:Gazora|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Community Services Coordinator]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==External links==
* '''Alexa''': [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=xytra.net Xytra.net]
* [http://whois.domaintools.com/xytra.net WHOIS for Xytra.net]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />
__NOTOC__

User:Nathan

2007-06-05T04:16:38Z

Nathan: Change title.

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
{|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%"
|
{{Infobox_Person
| name = [[Person_First_Name:=Nathan]] [[Person_Last_Name:=Richards]]
| other_names = ''[[Nickname:=Nathan, nathanr, nathanrdotca]]''
| residence = [[City:=Ottawa|[[Directory:Ottawa, Ontario|Ottawa]]]], [[State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| image =
| imagesize = 175px
| caption =
| birth_date = [[Birth Date:=1976-07-03|[[1976-07-03]]]]
| birth_place = [[Birth_City:=Toronto|[[Directory:Toronto, Ontario|Toronto]]]], [[Birth_State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Birth_Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| birth_name =
| death_date =
| death_place =
| death_cause =
| occupation = [[NAICS/51811|Community Services Coordinator]]
| known =
| contact = [[Email:=http://nathanr.ca/contact|[http://nathanr.ca/contact Email]]] [[Blog:=nathanr|ca|[http://nathanr.ca Blog (nathanr|ca)]]]
| reference = [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.417|45°25′1.2″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.7|75°42'W]] 
}}

I'm the Community Services Coordinator for [[Directory:Xytra Internet Services|Xytra Internet Services]] and have been since 2005.

{{Infobox_Personal
| physical = [[Person_Race:=White]] [[Person_Gender:=Male]], [[Person_Height:=70]] inches, [[Person_Weight:=180]] pounds, [[Person_Hair:=Brown]] Hair, [[Person_Eyes:=Blue]] Eyes
| profession = Director of Technical Services
| credential =
| member =
| party = [[Political_Party:=New Democratic Party|[[Directory:New Democratic Party|New Democratic Party]]]]
| religion =
| marital = [[Marital_Status:=Single]]
| children = [[Number_Children:=0]]
| relations =
| friends =
| interests = [[Subject_Interest::Movies]], [[Subject_Interest::Music]], [[Subject_Interest::Sociology]], [[Subject_Interest::Travel]]
}}

==External links==
'''{{FULLPAGENAME}}''' is the page "owner" of
[[Page Owner Of::Directory:Xytra Internet Services]]

==Internal links==
Subject Interests: [[Subject Interest::Category:Wikipedia]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia scandals]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia Vandalism]]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.417|-75.7}}

<embed>
<script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=&up_loc=Ottawa%2C%20Ontario%2C%20Canada&up_zoom=Region&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC&output=js"></script>
</embed>

<adsense>
google_ad_client = 'ca-pub-9146030392150029';
google_ad_width = 468;
google_ad_height = 60;
google_ad_format = '468x60_as';
google_ad_type = 'text_image';//2006-12-28: Centiare Directory space
google_ad_channel = '2388332058';
google_color_border = '6699CC';
google_color_bg = '003366';
google_color_link = 'FFFFFF';
google_color_text = 'AECCEB';
google_color_url = 'AECCEB';
</adsense>
|}

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-05-08T23:06:08Z

Nathan: oops, rv self

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==External links==
* '''Alexa''': [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=xytra.net Xytra.net]
* [http://whois.domaintools.com/xytra.net WHOIS for Xytra.net]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />
__NOTOC__

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-05-08T23:05:25Z

Nathan: +links

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM ([http://www.xim.ca www.xim.ca])''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community ([http://xblogs.ca xblogs.ca])''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==External links==
* '''Alexa''': [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=xytra.net Xytra.net]
* [http://whois.domaintools.com/xytra.net WHOIS for Xytra.net]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />
__NOTOC__

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-05-08T23:04:38Z

Nathan: No ToC.

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==External links==
* '''Alexa''': [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=xytra.net Xytra.net]
* [http://whois.domaintools.com/xytra.net WHOIS for Xytra.net]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />
__NOTOC__

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-05-08T23:04:05Z

Nathan: +external links

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==External links==
* '''Alexa''': [http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=xytra.net Xytra.net]
* [http://whois.domaintools.com/xytra.net WHOIS for Xytra.net]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

User:Nathan

2007-05-06T06:27:51Z

Nathan: pretty blue

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
{|cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-spacing: 0px; border:1px solid blue; background-color: lightblue; -moz-border-radius: 15px;" width="100%"
|
{{Infobox_Person
| name = [[Person_First_Name:=Nathan]] [[Person_Last_Name:=Richards]]
| other_names = ''[[Nickname:=Nathan, nathanr, nathanrdotca]]''
| residence = [[City:=Ottawa|[[Directory:Ottawa, Ontario|Ottawa]]]], [[State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| image =
| imagesize = 175px
| caption =
| birth_date = [[Birth Date:=1976-07-03|[[1976-07-03]]]]
| birth_place = [[Birth_City:=Toronto|[[Directory:Toronto, Ontario|Toronto]]]], [[Birth_State_Name:=Ontario|[[Directory:Ontario|Ontario]]]], [[Birth_Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] {{flagicon|Canada}}
| birth_name =
| death_date =
| death_place =
| death_cause =
| occupation = [[NAICS/51|Director of Technical Services]]
| known =
| contact = [[Email:=http://nathanr.ca/contact|[http://nathanr.ca/contact Email]]] [[Blog:=nathanr|ca|[http://nathanr.ca Blog (nathanr|ca)]]]
| reference = [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.417|45°25′1.2″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.7|75°42'W]] 
}}

I'm the Director of Technical Services for [[Directory:Xytra Internet Services|Xytra Internet Services]] and have been since 2005.

{{Infobox_Personal
| physical = [[Person_Race:=White]] [[Person_Gender:=Male]], [[Person_Height:=70]] inches, [[Person_Weight:=180]] pounds, [[Person_Hair:=Brown]] Hair, [[Person_Eyes:=Blue]] Eyes
| profession = Director of Technical Services
| credential =
| member =
| party = [[Political_Party:=New Democratic Party|[[Directory:New Democratic Party|New Democratic Party]]]]
| religion =
| marital = [[Marital_Status:=Single]]
| children = [[Number_Children:=0]]
| relations =
| friends =
| interests = [[Subject_Interest::Movies]], [[Subject_Interest::Music]], [[Subject_Interest::Sociology]], [[Subject_Interest::Travel]]
}}

==External links==
'''{{FULLPAGENAME}}''' is the page "owner" of
[[Page Owner Of::Directory:Xytra Internet Services]]

==Internal links==
Subject Interests: [[Subject Interest::Category:Wikipedia]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia scandals]], [[Subject Interest::Wikipedia Vandalism]]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.417|-75.7}}

<embed>
<script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=&up_loc=Ottawa%2C%20Ontario%2C%20Canada&up_zoom=Region&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC&output=js"></script>
</embed>

<adsense>
google_ad_client = 'ca-pub-9146030392150029';
google_ad_width = 468;
google_ad_height = 60;
google_ad_format = '468x60_as';
google_ad_type = 'text_image';//2006-12-28: Centiare Directory space
google_ad_channel = '2388332058';
google_color_border = '6699CC';
google_color_bg = '003366';
google_color_link = 'FFFFFF';
google_color_text = 'AECCEB';
google_color_url = 'AECCEB';
</adsense>
|}

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-05-05T09:26:06Z

Nathan: rv self

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-05-05T09:25:42Z

Nathan: owners, plural

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owners = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-05-03T17:45:45Z

Nathan: update info

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President, Network Operations & Software Development]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Vice President, Technical Support & Administration]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer, Gary O'Regan |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

As we are a non-publicly traded company, we will not provide details of revenue or profit.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-04-23T19:52:06Z

Nathan: /* Our current services */

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Director of Sales and Marketing]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
revenue = {{profit}} [[Canadian Dollar|CAD$]][[Revenues:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
operating_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]]number to be added later (2006)|
net_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]][[Net Income:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development (WebObjects), and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-04-23T00:50:35Z

Nathan: /* Our current services */

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Director of Sales and Marketing]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
revenue = {{profit}} [[Canadian Dollar|CAD$]][[Revenues:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
operating_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]]number to be added later (2006)|
net_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]][[Net Income:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development, and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions''' 
We offer hosting solutions including domain name registration.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-04-23T00:50:08Z

Nathan: /* Our current services */

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Director of Sales and Marketing]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
revenue = {{profit}} [[Canadian Dollar|CAD$]][[Revenues:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
operating_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]]number to be added later (2006)|
net_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]][[Net Income:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development, and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Hosting Solutions'''

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-04-23T00:49:38Z

Nathan: /* Our current services */

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Director of Sales and Marketing]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
revenue = {{profit}} [[Canadian Dollar|CAD$]][[Revenues:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
operating_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]]number to be added later (2006)|
net_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]][[Net Income:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

===Our current services===
'''Consultation''' 
We offer consultation services to clients who require guidance in relation to website design and hosting, web based application development, and all other Internet related enquiries

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />

Directory:Xytra Internet Services

2007-04-23T00:48:14Z

Nathan:

{{Infobox_Company |
company_name = [[Company_Name:=Xytra Internet Services]] |
company_logo = [[Image:Xytra_logo2007.gif|275px|Xytra logo]] |
company_slogan = |
company_type = [[Company_Type:=Private|[[Private Company|Private]]]] |
genre = |
foundation = [[Year_Started:=2001|[[2001]]]] |
founder = Jonathan Meijer |
location = {{flagicon|Canada}} [[City:=Gatineau|[[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]]]], [[State_Name:=Quebec|[[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]]]], [[Country_Name:=Canada|[[Directory:Canada|Canada]]]] |
key_people = [[Key_Person1:=Jonathan Meijer|[[Directory:Jonathan Meijer|Jonathan Meijer]]]], [[Key_Person1_Title:=President]]; [[Key_Person2:=Gary O'Regan|[[Directory:Gary O'Regan|Gary O'Regan]]]], [[Key_Person2_Title:=Director of Sales and Marketing]]; [[Key_Person3:=Nathan Richards|[[User:Nathan|Nathan Richards]]]], [[Key_Person3_Title:=Director of Technical Services]] |
industry = [[NAICS_Code1_Title:=Internet Service Providers and Web Search Portals |[[Information Services]]]] |
products = Website hosting, [http://xim.ca XIM], [http://xblogs.ca XBlogs], Web Design & Consultation |
revenue = {{profit}} [[Canadian Dollar|CAD$]][[Revenues:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
operating_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]]number to be added later (2006)|
net_income = {{steady}} [[Canadian dollar|CAD$]][[Net Income:=0|zero]] (to be corrected later) (2006) |
num_employees = [[Employees:=3|3]] (2006) |
parent = |
subsid = |
owner = Jonathan Meijer |
contact = [[Legal_Name:=Services Internet Xytra SENC]] [[Address:=153 rue Trottier]] Gatineau, [[State_Code:=PQ]]  [[Country_Code:=CA]]  [[Zip:=J8R 2J6]] [[Phone:=613.686.1855]], [[Phone:=+076 670-9219]]  [[Fax:=na]] [[Web:=xytra.net|[http://xytra.net xytra.net]]]   [[Email:=info@xytra.net|[mailto:info@xytra.net Email]]]|
reference = [[Year End]]: [[Year End:=1231|12/31]] [[NAICS]]:[[NAICS_Code1:=51811]] [[Entity Type|Entity]]: [[Entity_Type:=Corporation|[[Corporation|Corporation]]]] [[Latitude]]: [[Latitude:=45.502058|45°30′7.4088″N]] [[Longitude]]: [[Longitude:=-75.682249|75°40′56.0963″W]] |
footnotes =
}}

'''Xytra.net''' ('''Xytra Internet Services''') is a [[Canada|Canadian]] [[Information Services|Information Services]] [[firm]], headquartered in [[Directory:Gatineau, Quebec|Gatineau]], [[Directory:Quebec|Quebec]], [[Directory:Canada|Canada]].

Xytra offers hosting of websites and POP e-mail accounts, domain name registration, consultation and Internet services. We also have extensive expertise in the design and implementation of web based applications. Operating for over six years now, Xytra has a very loyal and satisified client base thanks to our reputation for quality client solutions and personal customer service.

===Our current services===
'''XIM (www.xim.ca)''' 
An open Instant Messaging network using the Jabber protocol. XIM is compatible with Google Talk, Gizmo Project and most other open Jabber servers such as Jabber.org and Pandion.be for example.

'''Xytra Blogging Community (xblogs.ca)''' 
A blog hosting service under the WordPress platform.

'''Web Design''' 
We provide basic Web site design services for small businesses or individuals starting out on the World Wide Web.

==Internal links==
* {{FULLPAGENAME}} is "owned" by [[Has Page Owner::User:Nathan]].
* [http://xim.ca XytraIM - XMPP/Jabber instant messaging]
* [http://xblogs.ca Xytra Blogging Community]

==Geolocation==
{{Mapit-US-cityscale|45.502058|-75.682249}}

== Share this page ==
<sharethis />