Directory:The Wikipedia Point of View/Hong Kong University Skeptics

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Revision as of 15:00, 25 July 2008 by Ockham (talk | contribs) (New page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Antaeus_Feldspar&diff=prev&oldid=57142176 Revision as of 07:41, 6 June 2006 (edit) (undo)Helen Wu (Talk | contribs) Hi Antaeus. I have...)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Antaeus_Feldspar&diff=prev&oldid=57142176 Revision as of 07:41, 6 June 2006 (edit) (undo)Helen Wu (Talk | contribs)

Hi Antaeus. I have noticed some strange and odd things on the NLP article. Most of the HKU skeptics society has been banned from editing on the basis of they are suspected sockpuppetry. I am a member, and I am worried about myself being banned if I make any objection to the NLP advocates removing verified information. I know at least some of them are not sockpuppets. I met Alice, Headley (Wei Qing), Hans, and Bookmain (Jim) a few months back, and Camridge (Liz) is also really nice. They are all therapists and academics. Do you think they will ban the whole of Hong Kong and China from editing that article? Also, I notice you have a grounding in editing pseudoscience subjects. I can send you some soft copy papers on NLP that the group gave me if you like. The article at presently seems to be going under some kind of censorship campaign. Some of it refers to scientology and other pseudosciences so I thought it may be helpful and "synergetic" for you. Helen Wu 07:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I doubt much I say will make any difference. However, here to clarify is why the HK sockfarm / sceptics place was banned: Wikipedia has rules and policies. Those rules govern, inter alia all personal conduct, and approaches to articles. Because of the nature of the internet, they also govern when and how a user may be removed for suspected accounts, or for multiple editors working together in a manner that blocks proper functioning of Wikipedia, even if by chance they are different individuals sharing computers. You may not like this, but each place has its rules, and those were spelled out over a very long period of time, and at many levels. They were spelled out by numerous individuals, personally and on the article, by mediation, by arbitration, by mentorship, and ultimately, by removal. The users named have been blocked not because of a sudden desire by a number of editors and mediators (most of whom had no prior interest in NLP) to take a side. In fact they were not formally removed until the mediators tired of their knowing improper conduct, after many months of work by 3rd parties who feel their time was wasted. That's how life goes: - in a communal work, no individual is indispensible, and those who do not learn, tend to ultimately discover this. I'm told it's a bit of a shock. They were removed because, simply put, they did not learn how to write in accordance with an encyclopedic style. they were removed for "warfare", vandalism, invention of false facts, deletion of valid sourced material, persistent cognitive inability to comprehend WP:NPOV and a dozen other standards, breaches of sockpuppet policy first notified to them over 8 months ago and not rectified in that time, running of one of the largest sockpuppet/meatpuppet groups of 2005 (WP:SOCK refers), and virulent personal attacks. Most of these things had little to do with the content they were writing. (Incidentally, several of them were the same individual, not just the same computer. That's been confirmed a number of ways. No I don't plan to clarify, just to say, "do you think this is the first time it's happened here"? Again, ask Headley) Anyhow, it's done. This is written, on the off chance there are genuine individuals who wonder why the bans happened. Now you know. FT2 (Talk) 13:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

FT2 I have seen your edits. You are an NLP follower. You are worse than Woohokitty. You both should be nowhere near the NLP article. FT2, you and Comaze should be banned like Terryeo for making hundreds of hours of extra work and sly conflict. Your excuses are extreme and one sided. The NLP followers obviously did lots of "warfare", vandalism, invention of false facts, deletion of valid sourced material, persistent cognitive inability to comprehend WP:NPOV and a dozen other standards. You are one of them. Tell me where in this version of the article [2] there is any false facts, vandalism or deletion of valid source material? You are trying to delete it yourself and vandalism is what the NLP followers do when they get frustrated with the facts that don’t promote NLP. You are also as unconvincing as Woohokitty. I didn’t ask for your desperate one sided excuses or threats. You certainly don’t want me editing on the NLP article. That is because you are an NLP follower. Helen Wu 04:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if that is your idea of emotional control and level headedness, then a fair number of people probably would find it hard to edit collaboratively with you. I feel terrible being "worse than woohookitty". But if you can point out a false fact I have inserted -- and I do mean a false fact, not just a thing you read into it or assume, that I didn't say, please tell me. Or do you think I also influenced the arbitration committee (most of whom are busy people who have never heard of NLP and could care less which side has the "right" view) to decide where the problem was, too? FT2 (Talk) 10:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I gather you are blocked now for breach of civility (note: not for your views). None the less, as I'm sure you get to read this page, here is your answer, some of the "false facts" and "deleteions": Source material of founders of NLP is factual, deleted. Source material on users of NLP is factual, deleted. Neutral point of view and representation of "writing for the enemy" is required by policy, deleted. Factual observation that much NLP is not new age and promoted in cult-like manner, deleted. Statements by HeadleyDown claiming false credentials for Morgan, repeatedly inserted. Presentation of subject matter "best foot forward" as required for both sides, deleted. Positive views of some researchers to set against negative views of others, deleted. In fact, almost anything that presents both sides with equal respect, deleted. FT2 (Talk) 15:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


Don't you try to treat me like a small asian woman. Don't try to lie to me. You tell me how was the article influenced? Was it by the editors or by the facts? The science editors were oftentimes lesser than the antiscience editors. But the science was still there. The influence was facts only. [1] NLP followers tried to influence with pressure constantly. Disruptive is when an antiscience editor makes lots of questions to the science ones to waste time or cause conflict. You banning science editors may not be censorship but it definitely will happen to lead to censorship. I know a fact that the science editors were not all from the same university. So don’t give me your lie. You failed to support the facts, and now the censorship is going to happen. If I try to edit on the NLP article, then how do I control other editors from Hong Kong? I suggest something, then two more suggest, then I am banned? You suggested a stupid idea. Stop with your excuses. You convince nobody. You should have your next job to ban all critical realist editors on the scientology article to give the scientologists a chance to do their promoting and cover ups. Then you give your same stupid excuses. You warned me off, and I will wait till other non-Hong Kong editors say how stupid and confusing your NLP enhanced article is. Then I'll give full support with all the sources the NLP followers deleted. In the meantime just take your excuses somewhere else and let me edit other articles. Helen Wu 04:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Helen_Wu&diff=prev&oldid=57303943

[edit] You have been blocked indefinitely You know, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, I could've blocked you right away for being a meatpuppet. But. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. But that post of yours might be the most incivil thing I've read since I became a mentor. We are going to block every sock or meatpuppet of Headley, et all. I was trying to be nice and explain the meatpuppet policy to you. The thing is, I welcome an anti-NLP voice on the article. I always have. But whoever that is has to follow our policies. And Headley et all were either incivil or they were meatpuppets of each other. This isn't censorship. It's enforcing our policies and the arbcom decision. --Woohookitty(meow) 15:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I asked Anteus a question because I know he is a neutral editor. You butt in and warn me off. You are incivil. I did not even try to edit on the NLP articles. You and FT2 are feel guilty and you show it with your insecure bans excuses. Helen Wu 09:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

My bans? Ah well, I'm sure you, being fond of the scientific method, will show me some point where I banned you... won't you? FT2 (Talk) 21:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

No reason to have a fight here. --Woohookitty(meow) 21:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC) I shortened the block since you did not post to NLP. It'll be another 24 hours for the incivil posts. --Woohookitty(meow) 11:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Woohookitty. I just met Wei and he explained everything. I should trust you. Civil language is important here so I'll do it extra good. Thanks for the short block. Helen Wu 04:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Well you know, the thing is (and I'm sure he explained this), I don't have any stake in NLP. In fact, I don't even totally understand it. My approach is totally based on policy. So as long as you stay civil and generally follow our procedures, we're cool. Headley said that he eventually started to write his posts in Word first, then take out the incivil stuff and then post it. That's a wonderful thing to try. Actually, I wish all users would try it. --Woohookitty(meow) 07:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Helen_Wu"